As much as it sucks hun its right . I think it is wrong too. Same reason i cant take kylie abroad her mother wont give permission. -The only reason we got to keep kylie here was because by the time her mother caught wind of the fact we had moved over 100 miles away she took us to court and we ended upwinning the case to the fact we were protecting kylie from my step father and they said she could visit she paid travel we have to put her up as much as i hate that i have to the woman that tried killing her under my roof, she doesent viit often in fact we havent had her here before and we moved in here march 07 .

Though we have got full parental responsibility we still need her permission which ithink is hugely wrong asshehasso little to do with kylie and nonly wants to know her when se wnts to play mummy.

The law is so wrong these days I just asked my dad and he said that my mother never got his permission when she took us out of the country .

BIG HUGS xxxx

Hun, you can send emails that request a reciept for when he recieves it and one for when he reads it.  He can refuse to send a reciept, but that can be taken that he hasn't read the emails at all.  See if you can't set your email application to do that, and then keep a record of what is sent, when it is sent, when it is received and when it is read.  That will give more weight to his lack of involvement in the boys lives.

You could always just notify him that you are going and that he can take you to court if he doesn't want the boys going.  it isn't your fault you can't get in touch with him, so that should be seen as failure to meet his obligations as their father.

Leith has just about said it all!

Just from observing friends and family, the Law in the UK seems to be weighted in favour of dads at the moment. The pendulum will swing, but not before your boys are old enough for it not to count for them sadly. My SIL had no end of troubles with taking her eldest two on a foreign holiday the other year - their dad had taken them all the way to south america to show them off to his inlaws (and give them upset stomachs) and kept hold of their passports "as he had paid for them". He only returned them to his ex-wife at the last minute, after winding her up something rotten saying he wouldnt be giving her the passports at all. He didnt care that his own kids were getting upset at the idea that they wouldnt be able to go away with mum just the three of them (they have two little half siblings and a step-dad to share her with normally). Self-absorbed, some people! But it all worked out in the end and they had a GREAT time, as I'm sure you will once you have jumped through the Law's hoops. Just think, it's worth it for Iceland!

Address - presumably the boys can ask their big brother for an email address? Maybe DS1'll even wish he was coming too....

Hi sweetie - You know I love you and want only good things for you.  I'm prefacing with that, cause I fear that you're not going to like what I'm going to say...

I know how much you want this man out of your lives.  The sad - but true - fact is that if nothing else, his DNA will always be with you in his children.  It must be possible that with all his faults, there must be some good - or else there couldn't be any good in your children.  And I know your kids are definitely good!  I feel really strongly that you need to let go of him and make peace (in your own self) with him.  I don't mean you have to approach him in any way, but  the anger and hurt and hatred I see that you have for him is still giving him a hold over you! 

Can I suggest a new way to look at this issue?  You don't need his permission, the kids don't need his permission - the fact is that THE LAW needs his permission.  You can choose whether or not you're on the side of the law (I personally would choose to be because I believe the disadvantages outweigh the advantages).  If you're not on the side of the law, ignore seeking his permission and just wear the law's consequences (not his, the law's).  I don't recommend this cause I think the consequences could be detrimental for you.  If you're on the side of the law, then just do it.  Not because it's right, or because of anything to do with -x, but because the law requires it and being with the law is better than being without one.

The last thing that jumps out at me is that you're saying you're worried about "feeding his problem".  Who cares if you feed his problem 100 times!  It's HIS problem, not yours.  You just do what you need to for you and the boys (in this case, get the tick in the box so you can go travelling), and let go of his reactions, his issues, his problems and his consequences.  They're not yours to worry about anymore.  The only power he has over you is what you give him.  Don't give him anything.

Having said all this, you probably think I don't care about the injustice of you having to get his permission for this when he has no other place in their lives.  That's not true at all. I think its completely annoying and difficult and painful.  I just can't also help but see it from the perspective of dads (and I'm thinking of a friend of my hubby's right now) who are prevented from having a relationship with their kids and they need some sort of protection by the law to prevent their kids from losing contact with their dads completely.  And I know the law works that they put the same rules in place for everyone, even though the situations may be different, to make sure that the kids never miss out. Given your situation - which is definitely an extreme example - it doesn't really fit the mould and so the law just doesn't seem appropriate here. 

I wonder if you can ask for an order or a permission that you can take the kids over to Iceland twice every year (or overseas once or twice a year) until they're 18?  Just so you have a blanket permission in place from now till they're 18 so you don't have to worry about it again.  Not sure if that's possible or not, but thought I'd raise the idea.

Love you heaps sweetie.  I'm so sorry that this is preventing you from getting on and enjoying things.  It would be so good to just be able to walk away without ever having to worry about the kids biological father ever again (believe me - I know).  xoxooxoxoxoxoxoxox

 Helen, the law sucks in cases such as yours, especially with X the uncaring human he is. I can see your no worried about  needing  his permission, but  that you have to ask him, that disturbs you the most and can fully understand where your coming from.  

I read one of your responses to Marg, Helen you will never owe him nothing, and at least this communication is just  on paper and not verbally, thanks heaveans. And the purpose of this communication is for you & your boys to go to Iceland to have a wonderful holiday with family....all worth it.

Love Janice

 Hey sweetie, I have no advice, it sucks!! I need Brads dad permission to take him out of state but he didnt need my permission to move 2 states away.

The system isnt fair when the fathers arent in our kids lives.. Hugs Helen xx

Oh, you do have a very good reason.  Knew you would.  Victum.  The law and this stupid one is victumizing you.  You have to what?  Permission!  Please!   Surely that can be over ridden by some member of the court for circumstances such as yours.  I would ask the Justice of the Peace (do you have those?).  Surely knowing where you are goes against something or other! Phhhaaaaatttt!  This does suck.   On the other hand   .. Iceland all of you!!!!  Wooowweeee!  And soon the boys will be old enough this will not be required... not that it should be now.