im sorry but i have to disagree. with all of todays modern technology, we wouldnt be allowed to feed our kids formula if it wasnt going to be beneficial to them. instead they would have such things as breastmilk banks etc where donors give up their milk in the same way that blood donors do.

there is nothing wrong with formula in my opinion.

there is a group for these discussions but i know you nor i will lose our head with this because you are what i consider a good friend...

oh dear thats twice in three days i've put my foot it it with you hey samantha... you do get why rhiannon is bottle fed though hey? and a bottle fed baby can bond with mum the same way daddy does, i do baby massage with her and lotsa cuddles and play time (she says mum now it's soo cute)... they dont miss out on that bonding just because they are bottle fed. Also, from the way i see it, breast feeding is easier, (if it works) there is no middle of the night spills, no sterilising and scrubing, no where near as much reflux as a result of feeding and is ready whenever it's needed, (there is no 10 min of screaming before you get the boob ready because you have spilt half it's contents on the bench and need to measure it again at 3 in the morning) so you are right that is no excuse, because it isn't true lol... the best thing about breast feeding is the antibodies and everyone knows that, but formula is getting better all the time (there is actually more iron in formula than in breastmilk-which is why bottle fed babies grow faster, another reason why i bottle fed her was because i am serverly anemic, i passed out a few times when i was breast feeding logan because the little iron that i had was going to him) and becides, it is a pretty good subsitute to the breast and although your statement of "it's best for my baby" is true from a nutritional stand point, if breastfeeding isn't working, and mum is set on sticking to that philosphy, pnd can set in real quick and that can't be good for anyone, mum or baby.

no worries, yer that is another good thing about breast feeding, logan didn't get sick for the whole time i fed him, but rhiannon has had two colds already, big difference, i wish i could have overcome my fears of the pain thing and breast fead rhiannon for the first few months because i do know that it is better for her, and i probably could have coped with it for a month or so (i definatly wasn't trying to say that bottle is better) guess i was just a wimp lol... oh did i say better, i ment faster and that is also proven because of those iron levels they can make more red blood cells with it and concequently can get more oxygen to everything which gets them to grow quicker... that is the best point for formula, just like the live antibodies are the best thing about breastmilk... my original post was about the judgment thing and that awful saying that is slamed down on mothers who bottle feed by everyone that they come across (shouda seen the looks i used to get when i went into the mothers room to feed rhiannon when she was rully lil)... good to know you are not one of 'em...just wanted you and anyone else out there, to understand that somtimes the choice wether or not to breast feed is skewed by other factors and at the time some of us don't really have the luxury of that choice.

ps: yas tha coolest buddy, good luck if you think you is gonna get rid of me that easy hehehe!!

i'm glad

lmao hehehe yer hey mony, boy you got guts sayin that hehe kudos to you mate...lmao some more hehehe i am trully astonished that more people havn't gone you for that one hehehe oh man hey good on ya mate. seriously it's a parents choice just like everything else, question just for curiosity's sake, did you water down the cows milk to start with at all? i head that somewhere, it apparently stops the reflux if it half as strong... dunno... aniwaiz i like your idea of the vitamins. thats cool.

yes we diluted it at first, but now he drinks it full strength. we thought its better for him to have some nourishment than none at all, which is what he was getting when he was drinking formula, as he would bring the lot up.

obviously it hasnt harmed him in any way, he is a very bright little man!

and to be honest i couldnt care less what people think about that because in the end i know im being a good parent to him and thats all that matters, not other people's opinions.

cool... yer i have a few hippy friends who gave their premi daugher goats milk watered down and she is a healthy lil thing.

so true as long as you feel like you are doing a good job as a parent who cares what anyone thinks hehe kudos to you :)'s too

For crying out loud y on earth have a religous debate over a piece of advice about doing whats right for your child if you want to have  a religious debate take it else where create a group or something

I myself believe in God but im am not going to push my beliefs on other people I will share them if asked to but thats it.

This is not the place for such a discussion

Great advice by the way totaly agree with you

I may be accused of many things by those who believe in the literal truth of the bible. I tell those so impressed that I am the truth, the light and the way. Follow me and I will show you that you are also the truth, the light and the way. In truth “the Father and I are one”.

Allow me now to share the knowledge (truth) that after 40 years of theological study led me to the beginning of another way; "The Way" of the true Christianity. Of course, realistically, Christianity and Christians existed before the Bible, and they are no more dependent on it today than they were then. Some will as before take the following as yet another heresy.

Let me repeat my statement: Christianity and Christians existed before the Bible, and they are no more dependent on it today than they were then. What do I mean? You ask. Simple enough. From a historical perspective, groups of Christians existed from the time of Jesus Christ onwards. Depending on the area where a group lived, its members were either desperately hunted or fairly autonomous. They lived in crypts and in communes (try either, it might be enlightening). They divided, multiplied, and conceived of new and changing stories and doctrines on an ongoing basis. It was not until the Council of Nicea in 300 A.D. that some sort of order was initially made out of the hundreds (possibly thousands) of gospels and testaments that had sprung up. Nicea made an initial stab at codifying the various documents in a written form, to stop them changing, and established an initial canon of scriptures that were considered doctrinal. Thus was born the Bible.

Of course that was not the end of the matter, subsequent councils trimmed off books that were judged to be dangerous to the church, or politically threatening to one faction or another in middle ages Europe, or even "unscientific."  The Protestant reformation, and subsequent versions of the Bible intended for use by Protestants birthed yet another slew of revisions, and the removal of more books. The remaining product was tweaked, edited, and streamlined. Fortunately for those of us who perceive the Bible to be a work of man, which has little or no bearing on the work of the church, the editors were not perfect. Fundamentally, God is infallible, and He/She cannot lie. With those things in mind, there is no way that the Bible, if it is the verbally inspired Word of God can have any internal contradictions that defy easy, and literal, solution. Nevertheless, there are many. I shall begin with a discussion of just three (3) of them

The Lineage of Jesus the Christ

Join with me on a journey of discovery of the truth, if you dare! We go first to the book of Matthew, Chapter 1:  15-17, there you will find that Joseph was the son of Jacob, who was the son of Matthan, who was the son of Eleazar, who was the son of Eliud.  There, now we know the  five generations of Joseph's line prior to Jesus, or do we?    Turn with me now to the gospel of Luke, to the 3rd chapter, verses 23-24,  where you will find that Joseph was the son of Heli, who was the son of  Matthan, who was the son of Levi, who was the son of Melchi.    Same five generations in Jesus line, except for Joseph, TOTALLY DIFFERENT  PEOPLE.  That is a contradiction.  A contradiction that can't be worked around with semantics, or with fancy footwork using apologetics.  Go ahead, re-read it.   Factually, the verses show   different lineages for Jesus’ "father."  They are a CONTRADICTION!!!  They  are one of several contradictions that have survived all the different  theological councils that re-edited what we now call the Bible.     Let's delve into this thing a bit deeper shall we?  Let's go back to  Matthew.  Chapter 1:17 tells us that "And thus there are 14 generations  from Abraham to David, 14 from David until the deportation to Babylon,  and 14 from the deportation until the messiah."    That is useful information! saves us going through the old testament for  genealogies.  Nice of the authors of Matthew.  Of course it is also a  contradiction to the genealogies given in the old testament.    The authors of Matthew counted 14 generations from Abraham to David, and  thought they counted 14 from Jechoniah to Jesus, and decided that there  was a prophetic pattern.  In fact, they found 18 names from David to  Jeconiah, so they changed Joram into the father of Azariah.  If you check  the old testament you will find that Joram was the great-great  grandfather of Azariah, according to the old testament. Likewise, they  turned Josiah into the father of Jechoniah, who was in fact his  grandfather.  Go ahead, check it out, the reading is good for you.  I'll  still be here when you get back. The list of names in the old testament is  based in part of the second and third chapters of I Chronicles.  The  names you will find there that are dropped by the authors of Matthew are:   Ahaziah, Joash, Amaziah, and Jehoiakim.    <tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock >   There, welcome back.  As you can see, there is a clear contradiction in  the number of generations between David and Jechoniah when comparing  Matthew and the old testament.  Once again, this is a clear, factual  contradiction, on something concrete and VERY,VERY basic. What could be more basic than who begats who?  Particularly when to fulfil certain old  testament prophecies, the authors needed to prove that Jesus was related  to King David.  Strange way to do it, through Joseph, who wasn't his  father, but they couldn't do anything much fictional with Mary, she was a  known Levite, so her line was known. Needless to say, there cannot be a  contradiction in the word of a perfect god You know that as well as I  do.  The contradictions prove that the Bible is NOT the word of god.    Oh, by the way, the pattern of 14 is false to begin with.  The  authors should have spared those poor folk they eliminated from  Jeconiah's line,  since the generations BETWEEN Jeconiah and Jesus are 13  to begin with, not 14. Go ahead and count. The geneology goes Jechonias,  Salathiel, Zorobabel, Abiud, Eliakim, Azor, Sadoc, Achim, Eliud, Eleazar,  Matthan, Jacob, Joseph.  The authors miscounted initially, apparently.  Yes, yet another contradiction, a contradiction within the same chapter  in fact.    Now then, compare this whole lot with the rest of the geneology Luke  gives in 3:23-31.  You will find that Luke lists FORTY-ONE generations  from David to Jesus, compared to Matthew, who has TWENTY-SEVEN.  Yet  another contradiction.  Continued next week

(you are welcome to the next forty pages if you will.)

Rev. Geoffrey

Universal Creation Foundation  .

ATTITUDE IS ALL
In this society in which we live, a society which is ego driven, dependent on material goods and a society of fear and guilt we need to examine our attitude to life. We tend too often to blame others for our attitude, for our hurts and anger; you hurt me! Or you make me angry! Is the too oft heard exclamation? In other words we project our shortcomings, our attitudinal problems onto another. This is as big a cop-out as believing that our salvation depends on another person or supernatural entity.

 What is needed is a change in attitude, a change of mind. We need to see our self for what we are, a creation of our Creator. We are created in the Creators image. Not in [his] image. God cannot have gender! We, created in the Creators Image are perfection. God does not create imperfection and from the moment of self-realisation of this truth your life will change; must change, because then and only then will you fully recognise your brother/sister as your self. Why would you blame your self?

 Recognise that peace is healing and that healing is letting go of the past. The past does not exist except in the split-mind. Why give reality to the unreal? Why give meaning to an event, even to words, which belong only to the past and therefore, which are nothing more than an illusion. When we let go of past perceptions and see the truth we begin to give! Giving is receiving. To have, give all to all!

 The consequence of giving, is love of self and finally love of all! We best learn to love our self by forgiveness rather than by judging. Seek ye therefore, to see love not fault.

 When we change our mind and live by the teachings of the Masters we find the peace, harmony and happiness which is our natural state of being. We no longer see a troubled world full of imperfection; we see God and realise that God is not interested in the human frailties of this world. God is not of this world! God is of the real world, the world of the soul. A world consisting only of love and where there is true love, there exists not fear, guilt or judgement. There is no expectation and therefore no disappointment. There is no past and no future. There is only this moment, which is totally for love. Seek and ye shall find means just that.

 We each choose on a moment by moment basis to live in peace or conflict.  If we choose conflict we choose insanely for fear, guilt, anger and other negative emotions. We choose sickness instead of wellness. We choose not to recognise our holiness. We choose to be sinners in the word of the Christian Church's teachings. Which means, we choose to live an illusion, because sin cannot exist in the real world. Sin can only exist in this world as an illusion of the ego mind. Realise that there is not sin and you begin to accept that you are perfection; that you have another mind which is under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, a mind which is you.

Rev. Geoffrey Leigh

Universal Creation Foundation

no offense mate but could you keep your bible bashing to yourself please? it has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

oh no mony on the contrary i had a good laugh from this religious babble... so what is it that they are quoting, some book... ahh i dunno... nothing to do with breast or bottle feeding, but hey BRING IT ON- i love a debate that no one can win or prove their side. mind you i didn't read past the word 'god' in any of those posts, if they can stear clear of that they might hold my attention for a lil while... sorry i just felt like stiring the pot a bit...

not really somthing i should do as it may hurt/harm feelings (which does count) lmao ok i withdraw my comment hehe love yas all crazi people...

blessed be everyone...

What about women who are malnourished and still continue to breastfeed? Or mothers who are drug/alcohol dependant and still breasfeed? Would breast still be best?

Im not having a go at you, just saying that there are always 2 sides to a story.

There are lotrs of great things written here.  At the end of the day we all have preferences as has been pointed out, be they parenting ideals, religious, or on any other subject.  This is what gives us diversity in society and makes sites like this work. 

For medical reasons I was unable to breastfeed and I was devestated.  I prefer everything as au natural as possible and to do something without even being allowed to try it hurt me bad, esp when I had my daughter and everyone thought I was being hypocritical. But it doesn't do to spill dirty laundry publicly, so I had to leave them with their thoughts and know that what I was doing was best because I had fact to back up the doctors advice and I would have been foolish on many levels to do otherwise. 

Guilt can be transferred by inference that you are not doing the right thing, and I had a lot of that, but none from me, no guilt that I was doing the wrong thing because i had weighed and considered the evidence, the fact given to me for my situation.  I hated it, but I did what was best for my child and she is healthy, she is strong and she is bigger than most children her age.  To look at her people disbelieve that she was formula fed.  Maybe God blessed us, maybe it is in her genes.  Does it matter?  My job is to keep her safe, strong and healthy to the best of my ability, to feed her and teach her good habits (thankfully she adores her fruit - I can never afford enough) and to also teach her good habits with regard to exercise.  There are many health conditions out there that are caused by or made worse by a poor standard of living, or too much junk and processed food and not enough exercise. 

To conclude this lengthened thought.  If you can say, hand on heart and looking yourself in the eye that you are doing your best for your child, then I suggest there is no blame, there is no comeback, there is no guilt.  So you do/did things slightly differently to the lady down the road, or your friend on the other side of the world, or even from your mother, but you probably also weighed all the suggestinos given to you and made the best decision you could.  I often did things for my daughter before I got the advice I had been looking for.  Most times common sense works and a good dose of love.  Misteaks happen.  We are made stronger and better by them though.  Be encouraged all of you.  If your children are happy, loved and healthy then you must be doing one heck of a lot of things right!

Peace
EF.x