Re: I just need to know how to know
Asked by MistyDawn

Question:

I need help.  How do i know if I am a good mother?  No mother thinks they are a Bad mother, they all think they did the best they

could in that situation and will probably always stick by their decision.  But how do you know if you are doing permanent damage to your kids? they aren't beaten ro neglected. but there are alot of problems in our house that they are aware of: the house isn't really clean, my hubby isn't really ready to be a "family man" even tho they are his kids too. (3 and 1)   My husband and I fight all the time and the kids know when mommy is upset.  he is really strict with the kids and spank them for the slightest thing they do wrong. its to the point that they aren't even the same kids when he is at work during the day and at night when he is home...     I don't think he is abusive, or at least he doesn't mean to be, he just doesn't understand that your not supposed to spank kids just because they do something bad, that's how he was raised and he thinks he turned out fine...   My kids know that they have to be good and quiet when daddy is home and I cant figure out if that is a good thing or a bad thing, they are still babies, they are supposed to be in some trouble, it just comes with the job description!? right?  when daddy isn't home they laugh and play with their toys *no matter if they make noise or not)  and they are really happy babies, but when he is home they aren't allowed to play with toys if they make noise, they can't be on the furniture because they like to stand up on it, they cant make noise because daddy is watching tv...

when/what is too much for babies, I have talked with my hubby multiple times and he is unwilling to change, he is convinced that the kids need discipline that they shouldn't play with noisy toys when he gets home because he "works all day"  and he doesn't want to hear it.    when am I being a bad mother by putting up with too much from hubby?  I have always been a firm believer that a mother that stays in an abusive relation ship is just as much at fault as the man that hits a baby, but when is ti too much, where is the line that isn't supposed to be crossed,    Like I said, I have talked to him and he isn't willing to change, ? but I don't know if the kids having discipline is good or not,,, or if he is just taking it too far or if i am a push over and I need him to do it since I'm not?

My Advice:

a few years ago, our laws here in Canada changed. It's now illegal to spank a child under 2 and over 12... There is a reason for this. The reason is that spanking is to be educational, not an expression of emotion. Spanking is not to be done out of anger- when it is, that's an assault on a child and the person can be charged by the police. basicly, children under two are considered to be in need of redirection (giving them a quieter toy to play with) and being taught the rules, rather than forced to follow them. Also, physical discipline with any kind of object is unacceptable- it has to be an open hand, and applied to the buttocks. (so, under our laws, it's illegal to slap your child, even your 14 year old who's sassing back).

You are right that no one views themselves as a bad mother- I see regularly in my work as a child protection worker. (I'm sure some of you could tell I explain this stuff regularly!) Anyways, you are right to question yourself and get an objective opinion. That's a sign your a very good mom at heart. The fact that you are questioning if you are a good mom also tells me that you feel you could/should be doing more. Only you are the only one on earth who knows your situation fully, and only you know what your capable of doing. Listen to your conscience, let your heart be your guide.

The situation you are in is definitely problematic. your hubbies discipline techniques are definitely outdated, and it seems clear that spanking is a regular thing in your home. Although I personally don't object to spanking in severe situations- where a child is doing something very dangerious where they'd end up in the hospital or doing serious harm to a sibling,  to me it should be the discipline of last resort. At the age your children are at,  most one year olds would be developmentally advanced to get into the kind of trouble i just mentioned. At three, sure, children do things that would fit the criteria i personally use. (This is not necessarily based on law, but on my own upbringing as well- I was spanked three times in my childhood, and slapped once at 16). But unless your child is very unruley, this shouldn't be happening regularly. And from what you've said, this is not the case.

The other part of these spankings we need to look at is frequency/severity. you mentioned that it happens over the slightest thing. How often is Dad home? How often in a day, in a week does he spank them? If we're talking more than once daily for the three year old, and less than monthly for the one year old,  this is way too frequent (moderate-high risk).  What does a spank look like? Are these bare bum spanks or on the pamper? Do they leave red marks if they are bare bum? What does he look like when he does it? Does he look angry? Does he look like he's not even really aware of what he's doing? Does he look just tired and frustrated? If these are bare bum spanks, leaving red marks, and at least one of them gets spanked most days, and he looks angry when he does it, then this is serious. Mainly because the kids are so young and he's not doing it for the right reasons if he's angry. (If this is the case, you could be looking at child protection services involvement if you don't address it). If these are light little sputts on the pamper, and he doesn't look angry, then it's not so serious and he's just a traditional disciplinarian. And there are many levels in between, but this should give you some idea of how serious your situation is. If your heart breaks to see the look of pain on your baby's face, then it's probably too much. A spank should startle, but it should be more the emotional impact of being spanked than the physical effect of the spank that causes your babies' reactions.

A few things here tell me that this is a border line situaton. Your children treat him different, and behave differently around him. That means they have definitely learned from the spankings. But what have they learned? Do they respect him for it, or just fear him for it? At this age, i'm guessing it's fear.... that's not good.

Exposure to your yelling and arguing is not healthy for them. Kids do need to witness parents sorting out problems- it's how they learn problem solving skills. However, your children are learning that when you disagree with someone, you yell at them and do the things mommy and daddy do. It also contributes to the level of fear they have... which appears to be fairly high.

The next thing for you to think about is what about his childhood? When you hear him talk about it, do you think he was physically abused? Is he an angry, aggressive man today? Could his childhood discipline be why?

Now think about his coping skills? Does he cope well with stressful things, or does he yell, swear, hit things, get a lead foot and cut people off, etc. Does he need healthier ways of coping with things?

Oh, and what about your argueing? Does he threaten you, even if you know he doesn't mean it? Does he tell you what you can and can't do? Does he tell you your a bad parent for not disciplining like he does? Does he force you to do things you don't want to do? Are you afraid of him?

So, I know we've really taken a deep look at the problem, and now your likely seeing the picture a little more clearly. You are a good mom because your willing to see the true picture, and are stepping out of any denial you may have had. That's the first step. Take a deep breath, because now we look at next steps.

You have tried to talk to him, and it didn't work. Were you calm when you did it, or emotional? People don't take us as seriously when our emotions are over run. Try stating the facts first, then telling him your conclusions/beliefs about the facts. (this is just part of a skill learned through the VitalSmarts Crucial Conversations training program... you may want to look them up, at http://vitalsmarts.com/, some of the info is available free on line- it's awesome training). When we state the facts first, it's less threatening and gives them somewhere to change their actions from. For example " Hun... did you see that red mark? I've noticed that they don't fade right away... I'm finding myself wondering how we'd know if the discipline was too much. What do you watch for to know if it's too much?" you'd need to play with the wording, but keep the order, and give it a try if you think it would help.

The next step depends on how serious you now view your situation after hearing the questions I had for you. If you answered yes to the more serious ones, then you need to take more serious action. If he's mean and agressive with you, and spanking the kids out of anger, that is quite serious. Your babies are little- just babes in arms still.  Both of you as parents are responcible to protect your children and not hurt them.

I don't want to scare you, but I do want you to know the truth- if you know that the situaton is harming your babies, and you don't protect them, then in a court of law, you are just as guilty as he is. And if you had child protection involvement, they could remove your babies from both of you= not just him, for hurting you, but from you as well for failing to protect them. How many heart broken stories are there, even here on Minti, of people who had one parent deny the harm the other parent did, and chose the other parent over them as the child? They are very heart broken stories. Choose your children over your husband if you must. Leave if you must- to protect your children and wake him up. I'm not sure if your situaton is serious enough to make you feel you have no choice but to leave, but with how he treats you, he's stopping you from protecting your babies from him.

From what you have siad, I do believe your babies are experiencing harm. I believe they are at risk from him, at least to some level. And usually these things escalate. you'll need to stand up for them- protect them. Don't over react, but don't under react.

Would having him see how different the kids' behaviour is help? or just make it worse? Would it help for him to see how affectionate and loving they are when they don't know he's there? or would he just accuse you of letting them be unruley and letting them get away with stuff?

Try what you can on your own. Access community agencies. And if you have no other options, you have two- leave, or call child protection services yourself. Personally, I'd recommend you leave if you have somewhere to go over calling. Simply because governments either over or under react... and you don't need the pain of either. I think your from australia if I recall- If your looking at no choice by calling Child protective services, there is someone on Minti you should talk to first... she'll help you decide if that's what you really want to do. She's a brave, hardy soul, who knows alot about the system there. She'll help you.

I'm really concerned that those may be bare bumm spanks that leave red marks. If they are, then you need to really look at serious action if its occuring as often as "every slight little thing" sounds... if it's more frequent than i mentioned above, like several times a night, you need to do something.

Feel free to Minti mail me if you need help/support. There is also a group here on Minti that would love to support you through this- it's called We Love our Kids Too, and it's for people going through things like this. We help and support you, and it's a private group so it's safe to talk freely. also, we keep everything confidential. Please, think about joining us. And access every possible support you have where you are (unless there are tons) and get the help you need to protect your kids. That's your responcibility in all this.

All the best to you, and I pray this is resovled soon for your kids sake!