This is an interesting read.  The link states that vegetarians do not live longer, often have vitamin B12 deficiencies and suffer from anaemia more frequently and are carnosine deficient.  The studies quoted comparing vegetarians to those eating "A LOT" of red meat (a lot of anything can be unhealthy- ie. does the study use subjects eating red meat in moderation as well?) and the article admits that some of the studies did not eliminate other varaibles in lifestyle (such as smoking and drinking) which would have a significant impact on the results.  I don't think this link did much to prove your point.  But on the other hand, you sound lke one of the few who have researched vegetarianism extensively and know how to keep your family healthy on a vegetarian diet, which I highly commend you for.  There are so many people who make such decisions on a whim without knowing the right foods to use on a daily basis to maintain the right nutrition.  congratulations on that.

I don't like to get into arguments, but had to say that vegetarians actually live longer than those who eat meat.  I will try to find a link on the computer, however it's easy enough to find information regarding this.  We do not need meat.  Everything about the human body and its make-up suggests that we were never meant to eat meat.  We have been (generally) brought up to believe we need it for survival.  This is not the case.  We just need to be more aware of what we need, as humans, to ensure we develop to our full potentially and live as long and healthy a life as possible.  If it were true that vegetarians die before our meat-eating counterparts there is no way in hell I would stop my child from eating meat.  It is not too difficult to get your daily requirements of all things needed by our bodies without needing to rely on meat, it just takes education and a little planning in the beginning, and perhaps some retraining of the palate.

Also, having more than the recommended daily requirement of foods (re: the fruit intake you are saying) does not mean it's better for them, the body simply disregards it as waste so giving more fruit than required doesn't mean the child is healthier for it.

Do you eat 2 serves of fruit and 5 serves of vegetables every day? We sure do.  Along with grains, legumes, pulses, and maybe once or twice a month she's invited to a birthday party where she has a little junk food that most certainly is not part of every day eating.  Take away once a week to once a fortnight? We've had it 3 times in 5 years.  By choice, not dictated by finances or otherwise.

I also have a smart, active child (she does 3 organised sports activities each week, and we do something that is not organised the other 4 days a week, even if it's just on the backyard equipment outside with some neighbourhood kids.  Mostly she is in her own yard from around 5-ish when we get home from whatever other activity we've been to that day. 

Short of it is, we do not need meat.  If people such as Ghandi don't need meat to not only survive, but become world leaders, then neither do we.

Hey there,

My children eat so much fruit because they love it and I believe that if they are asking for it, I'd rather that than a packet of chips. I even went to my local GP and pediatricain about my boy eating five apples a day, no exaggeration and they both said that if his was eating all his other meals and that they were balanced, let him have ten. My kids poop alot, but hey, at least I know that toxins are quickly being flushed out. I know that my family has an extremely balanced diet, through many years of studies in nutrition I know this to be fact. I have read many "published" articles on the vegetarian - carnivorous debate.

To be a vegetarian that has a balanced diet is very difficult, even more so for vegans., and Ghandi had far from a healthy body. He believed that we did not need much food at all, his focus was on the spiritual and not the physical. I am not trying to convert anyone or tell you what you are doing is wrong for your children. My mother and step dad are vegos, as is a cousin and close friend. I have never ever had a problem catering for them and as I stated in my last post, we have 1-3 vegetarian meals a week. Good on you for staying away from take away food. We have made a choice about regulary trying different cuisines, whether it be as take out or dine in. It also gives me inspiration for my own menu.In conclusion, we all make choices about how we lead our lives, we all have our different standards only we choose to live by. If you choose not to have meat in your diet, more power to you, but, you can not disregard facts. Meat eaters with a healthy balanced diet, live longer. They reason we are what we are, intelligent emotional and thinking beings is because of our varied diets. Neither an exclusive carnivorous diet or an exclusively vegetarian diet is great for us.

Cheers :)

Hi, my child and I have an exclusive vegetarian diet, our diet is varied.  We do eat eggs, we are not vegan.  Vegetarians can also be healthy, intelligent, emotional and thinking humans.  One of the guys in our vege group is an 89 year old man who goes snorkling, does triathlons and participates in a couple of local events, such as running up a high hill (just short of being named a mountain) and back down again, and swimming the length of one of the rivers.  He has never had surgery, he is fit and healthy despite his love of alcohol, which he consumes probably 2 or 3 nights a week.  He has his Masters of Education and taught for a long time, now tutors uni students doing Education.  His meat-eating peers dropped out of all the physical activities decades ago, most have had heart surgery along with other types of surgery, a couple of his mates from work and from the sports groups have passed away, been put in homes, or are suffering from arthritis and so on.  It's really not that difficult to give kids all they need in life with a varied diet.  Ghandi's body did what Ghandi wanted it to do, it wasn't the type of food, but the amount he was having that led to him having an unhealthy body.  I was more referring to his intellect than his body type.  I know how many times we've had to see a paediatrician, just once due to a heart murmur she was born with that fixed itself by the time she reached 5.  We visit a doctor a handful of times a year between us, get the occasional cold that's easily fixed with lemon and honey tea, and a couple of oranges.

I find myself becoming defensive now, however I feel also there is no need to defend a diet and way of life that works so well for so many people.  I'm a smart person, my child is smart, active child.  We rarely get sick.  Not only do I feel good, have more energy than many of my workmates, and call in sick far less often than they do, not to mention being the one to do a 12 hour shift at times (in desperate times, I really do have better things to do with my child, although luckily she's there with me so we're together) but I feel good about my food choices.  I can sleep peacefully at night knowing that the food I've eaten has caused no harm to any living being.  If you visit a kill floor at an abattoir you may feel the same way.  The way we live is ethical.  No dead animal parts floating around in our bodies.  My brother has a shirt that reads "My body will not be a tomb for other animals" and it's a great shirt.  Miss 5 has a "Vegetarian Rock Star" shirt with a big electric guitar on it.

I agree, if kids are asking for food it's better they have an apple than a packet of chips.  In this house, if it's between a meal time (we have 5 meals a day) I put it down to kids being bored rather than hungry so will go outside for a game of cricket until the next meal, or get out a craft activity to keep them occupied.  I don't use the TV, refuse to get one, and don't use the one that was given to us by someone who thought I couldn't afford to buy one.  Same with play centres, people thought we couldn't afford to go there so offered to pay for us.  I just don't like them, they are closed in and don't allow for imagination to be used as much as a park, beach or the backyard does.  At the end of the day we all do what we do, but it would just be good if people could stop knocking things they find out of the ordinary.

Sorry for getting defensive, sometimes I feel a little attacked not only for this, but also for being a single parent (with a child in Catholic education) and also for living in an area often seen a dodgy area of town.  I like living here, my child deserves a Catholic education as much as any other Catholic child, I'm choosing to remain single, and have put a lot of thought into the type of diet my child would grow up with, just like the vaccinations, schooling, after school activities, childcare she went to before reaching school age, the type of seat she sits in when travelling in the car, like any parent these things were thoroughly thought through and didn't just happen by chance.  So once again, sorry for getting defensive, I'm just a little sensitive with certain issues lately and being put down for some choices when they are all made in the best interest of my family, and the environment.

Hey there RockerMama, I in no way meant to cause you insult. In no way was I implying that you, your child or any other vegetarian has less intelligence than their meat eating counterparts. My reference to humanity being intelligent, emotional thinking beings is reference to evolution. Because we started combining meat and plant matter, our brains developed. That could not have happened on a solely herbivorous diet or a solely carnivorous diet. It was the combination of both. I just feel that the original author of the advice article could have stated things very differently. It was obvious that she is passionate about the foods she chooses to put in her mouth, but calling meat junk food was not correct. I applaud her and you for living by your standards and encouraging open discussions. It is how we can make change. I am also sorry to hear that you feel you are not supported in your choices. My intention is not to even begin to try and make you feel that way. i know that what you are doing is the right thing for your child, just as I know that what I am doing for mine is right. They all eat healthy and are involved in physical and mental activities. I will still stand by my choice to include meat as I believe it is better. We are both trying to raise healthy children.

My kids also do not watch much telly. Physical exercise, craft, board games and construction are a big hit in our family. We are just getting into science experiments which has been, lets say interesting. Your friend who is still kicking on is an amazing role model for everyone. Elizabeth Murdoch is 99, takes one week off a year, exercises to the best that her body will allow, holds interviews and runs regular charity events and she eats meat. I don't know if she has had any surgery. Lets just agree that their are pros and cons on both sides and you and I have made our choice. As far as schooling is concerned, I am surprised that you are copping a hard time over that, and the people who are responsible for that should not be held in high regard. My daughter is going to a catholic girls high school next year. Anyways, I'd love to chat more about that but I've just looked at the time and I have to go back to work.

Take care :)

I don't think anyone is putting your personal lifestyle choices in question.  You did ad a link to an article that didn't support your view and you did use some comment along the lines that if it is good enough for Ghandi it is good enough for anyone, (or something like that).  This (among other things), left reason to doubt the credibility of your postings... I mean Ghandi; really, a great man, but hardly illustrates the state of health I personally would want for my child. 

                 http://therubicon.org/category/justthinking/

Dietry Guidelines for Australians

excellent quality link!!

Ooops, I can't spell, but the links work; great range of information there mand.

 Thankyou dont worry I am a shocker when it comes to spelling and running sentences I just worked out why it didnt work and go directly to the booklet missed out (the)The Dietary Guidelines For Australians.

Thats what i was trying to get at.  you explained it much better!

thanks. See I am learning stuff at Tafe and alot of it does relate back to us! lol

I know you are learning heaps- and its all fresh in your mind.  Uni for me seems a long time ago (not so fresh any more).  keep sharing your knowledge- it makes it stick when you tell someone else what you know.

Thanks again. lol. BTW, I pretty much aced my cardiovascular/circulatory, respiratory and tissues tests. whoot whoot. Give me 12 months and I bet I forget it all, not enough fish in my diet. pmsl.

It's common sense anyway... I really don't like it when health/dietry related advice is posted with fairly sensational information & it isn't substantiated by providing links to credible sources.  It is good that the author has stated that we should include a lot of fresh fruit & veges, however to avoid dairy & meat?  Unless you have an allergy to a particular food, there is no reason to exclude it in a child's diet.  Children's dietry needs are different to those of an adult & parents in doubt should seek professional advice.

http://www.anatomyfitness.co.nz/Portals/0/food-guide-pyramid%20600x480.jpg

Perhaps I am old fashioned, however this is what I was brought up to believe was appropriate and this is pretty accurate as far as our general diet is concerned.  I don't make dinner with less than 6 vegetables in it, as Stephen is pretty anal about it; besides, they taste great!

Did you know they don't teach the pyramid anymore? Will see if I can find the diagram...

The food circle.

Link

My kids told me about the food circle and I have since seen at the MCH centre. Notice there is no fats in the food circle? They are occassional foods.

LOL... I just looked up an old pic to show what we base our diet on.  I believe that some fats are healthy & in moderation should be included.  Especially if you have an active lifestyle; which we do.  Nice though, it's good to see, I couldn't find that graphic, (lazy me).

Did you see the show on tele, (I only saw ads for it), stating that the majority of breakfast cereals on the market are not very healthy & that kids shouldn't eat them every day... Now there's a surprise LOL; you only need to taste them to know they are high in sugar etc, let alone read the ingredients on the side of the box.  As for bread, someone wrote a pretty handy article on it not too long ago.  There are healthy & unhealthy versions of most foods, a friend of mine told me that the bread in the States is more like cake, it is so full of sugar that he won't eat it.

Here's a link to an

about breakfast cereals... Whew, lucky for us the midget eats weetbix with a drizzle of muesli in the morning with fresh fruit.