I agree with BR and DA. Sometimes when writing advice things get left out (sometimes for the sake of it getting to long, and sometime because you forget to add it in). Honestly I don't see DA making a wrong accusation at all. If this woman has some many people begging her to leave and is going around TELLING people about her abuse, why would you say she WASNT seeking attention.I was a victum of rape not once but twice and I definatly didn't go around telling people about. NO ONE would want anyone to know about that unless they wanted attention. You know since DA and BR were victums of DV I think they would know how the victium of DV would typically feel. And No one is not concered for the child. But honestly there isn't much anyone can do except those who know the stories best. That means just because someone on Minti wants to help doesn't mean they can. And DA might not have enough insite to get proper help for the baby. The girls closest friends or the ones she typically turns to for her crys of abuse need to be the ones to step up. And since (according to DA) things are already in process for getting the baby help, I think ya'll need to lighten up on DA. She is stating an opinion, and if you don't like then that is fine, but I don't think it is any need to bash her or her character. To be honest some of the replys were really harsh. That is all I have to say about it.

I like DA a lot, she was one of the first people who made me feel welcome here when people were being nasty. She has also helped me quite a bit with other issues. But putting that aside I still feel sorry for the way DA made this article more about this girl than the issue about seeking sympathy and attention with domestic violence. It could have been written in a more professional manner other than judging this girl may it be incorrect or correct. You may have found some of the comments harsh but I also found this article harsh.

There's no way to right an article like this without making the "victim" look bad, yes it's harsh but I know from experience that there is no other way to put it. You want to feel sorry for them but they run you down and in circles. Your always chasing your tail where these kinds of ppl are concerned. It doesn't matter what you say or what you do or what you organize to help them, they never accept. They love the life they have created. There is nothing you can do to help them aside from praying that nobody ends up dead.

This article could be broken down to a content level rather than a personal level. This involves speaking of common behavioural traits and why many women seek attention for this sort've thing. Your very description above is a good way to describe someone who seeks attention and sympathy from their domestic situation. So as you can see, it can be done.

Yes but she thinks differently than DA. Infact we all think differently. Maybe DA didn't know exactly how to put it tht wat so she put it down the best way she saw fit.

Exactly! Having lived with it I understand it, but DA is an observer a big difference in view point. Yes it can be done but only if you understand it. Sometimes you have look past the personal to see the edivence or the point.

FINALLY! Ok sorry, I was just thinking that my post were only being seen by me. I'm trying to be a peace maker here...a sort of player for both sides...but yea..im gonna hush now.

Yes DA thinks differently but there was still no need to resort to name calling, mocking and personally attacking the girl, regardless of her situation. I think that is really mean. We may have to agree to disagree here as our values are obviously quite different.

Ok I know know I have grown a matured (off topic for right now sorry) the old me would have replied to your comment saying ok w/e. But I read what you had to say took it in and then went back re-read the article and thought more deeply about it. Yes the article was a little harsh, and it could have been writen more on the advice side instead of the story/rant side. But (I have often found myself to do this on more than one occasion) she could have gotten caught up in the story. Things like that tend to happen, you have all intentions of writing about how to deal with something, but you get caught up in the example, or personal experiance that the advice gets lost, or isn't made very clear. How about this...(me attempting to be a peace maker..haha*laughs to self*) everyone has their own opinions, no one person is going to fully agree with the other....about we all agree to disagree...yeah...that sounds good lol.

And to add what I said earlier, I know here in the USA(more importantly Florida) if you personaly do not witness the DV going on it is just hear-say and there is nothing the courts can do until she is willing to go to them. So again it might not be that people havet tried to get help, but there is only so much they can do. So in all honestly the mother needs to get her act together and quit being selfish. And I wanted to add to something that was stated about people in DA's town finding out and knowing who she is talking about. Honestly I am sure alot of people already know. If this girl goes around telling people, those people could gossip. WOMEN GOSSIP!! We all do it, so this artical isnt going to effect that and it shouldnt have even of been brought up. She really didnt give any details as to who it would be. So yeah...that was just uneed.

It makes more sense now that you have given that extra infomation.

The fact that this is about a guy your involved with's EX makes it all clearer. Im sure the fact that she is an ex girlfriend would cloud your judgement on her abusive situation, or would it?

Unconsciously or not that emotional factor has to be taken into account given your previous view points on DV, although the phenoenom (sp?) you describe does happen. I don't think being an attention seeker is a bad thing, WE ALL ARE attention seekers, its how we get validated, reconised, socialised. Its a part of life and yes it get tiering when people dont help them selves but does that mean you give up?

Anyway, the main thing is that the DV stops eventually before someone ends up dead.

just my (prob unwanted) 2 cents worth :)

This explanation makes no difference to my opinion about how disturbing the articles is.  You have chosen to focus on and judge the girl in question; while brushing over the situation with the baby involved.  Quite frankly, the rest of the people are adults and regardless of the situation, the child should be the focus. 

The fact that you know these people and are the author also takes away any anonymity in a case that is pending and should be kept private.  It wouldn't be difficult for a person known to you or the small town you live in to stumble across this and figure out who are you are taking about... I think the whole article is written in a callous uncaring manner that belittles and judges the girl involved:  Who are you to say what she should or shouldn't do?  How do you know how she actually feels inside?  Who is the one seeking sympathy and attention, you or the girl in the article?

Arna and I expressed concern about it below hun, and you're right the baby is the number 1 priority. A bump on the head might be a bump on the head for an adult but something like that could kill a baby.

I see that... Though it was among a lot of other 'noise'  I just wanted to clarify it CLEARLY as I felt I didn't word it strongly enough in my original comment. and no other comments about the welfare and safe care of the baby in question had been addressed.

I'm sorry but it is in fact you that has missed the point. The situation DA has described is what i lived with as a child. If you don't know the behaviours how can you fix the problem? (refer to my reply above) The attention seeking by mother and the abuse by father brought me to the brink of sucide at 15yrs. Yes I should have been forcibly removed from the situation, however my mothers attention seeking behaviour has now taken a more sinsiter and dangerous path (prescription drug abuse) my father is still abusive just in a new and creative way. Nobody can help them because they just don't want help. They are enjoying the lifestyle they have created and weave everyone into their web. My father has everyone convinced that I'm being stubborn, vindictive, unforgiving and delibrately hurtful towards him. That I am delibrating keeping him from his grandkids (which is totally not the truth) I am hounded by my brother and my Aunt into giving into his manipulation. My mother is unreliable and drug addict, self explantory really. These behaviours started before I was born and have only grown and changed into monsters that still haunt me and threaten to hurt my own children.

I am aware and take measures to stop them from hurting my children. I can't change them and I can't change what they did to me but I can stop the cycle of abuse with my kids.

If your not aware of the manipulation how can you help them? how can you help the child that is a pawn in their sick and twisted game?

Perhaps rereading this advice without your blinkers on will change your view. This childs whole life will be affect if DA's friend isn't the father and will still be a pawn in their sick twisted game.

Raven

You have chosen to make this advice about you... When indeed it is not.  I am aware that there are people in this situation, however this advice article was not written with an unbiased opinion, nor is it about your child hood.  My concern is the baby who is currently living in this situation as outlined in this advice article.

Yes that is true and the child is whats important but What I am saying is their behaviour is affecting the help they are seeking. I used my own experiences to highlight just how damaging this form of attention seeking is to both adults and children. How can you can help someone if their reason for going back is because they get more attention when they are abused and the child only brings more attention to the "victim". Lets not be niave here, even when the child grows up, the mothers behaviour towards her child will affect how that child raises it's own children. Do we wish to break the cycle of volience or do wish to have the child pick it up later in life in the same form as it's mother? Voilence breeds voilence and to break it the ppl around the "victim" need to understand why they are doing what they are doing. You can't fix a broken engine if you first don't understand how an engine works and secondly what exactly is broken. It is the same with ppl, you must first understand their reasoning and their thinking before you can bring a solution to the problem.

Ppl like her will continuely use those who are trying to help, this poor child is a pawn and should be removed, but without a psycharist approval, it will never happen. She will not be willing to see a professional because she will have to confront the truth about herself and lose the high card she is playing, her child.

It is a sick and twisted game she is playing and she is literally getting a high off of it. It's like she has munchausen syndrome, she delibrately places her and her childs life in danger for attention. This is a very sick individual and as I said a professional will lift the lid of her dirty little secret and put an end to it. Something she will do everything in her power to stop from happening.

It is important to be able to recognise the signs of this sickness and deal with it appropiately......with professional help.

Raven

Bad mouthing someone and making harsh comments isn't going to help that person either. And by writing things like this article it adds to the negative attention that she possibly wants. And there is no certainty that DA's perception is in fact correct. Many people who commit suicide freely talk about their attempts or plans too; if we ignored their pleas as in this case where domestic violence is present many of them would be seriously injured or dead.

When my mother "attempted" sucide, she was not alone in the house and told those in the house she had just taken a ton of tablets. There was never any risk of her dying and she knew it. She was never at any risk at anytime.

This is different to my mate who apparently just did it. No notice, no notes, no safety net. He just took his life because he could no longer live in his toxic environment.

Can I bad mouth my mother? Yes! Do I? No, because in the end she is a product of her own toxic childhood. Do I follow her example? No, I put my children first and my own desires last.

To stop the volience we must end the volience somewhere. Unfortunately there are individual's who are sick and use what ever means they can to fulfil their own desires even at the risk of their own children.

Yes I am a product of a toxic environment, yes it deeply affected my life, but I refuse to pass it on to my own chrildren.

Perhaps this young woman is also product of her own toxic childhood but that does not excuse her behaviour, it is sick and it is twisted and she needs to be treated by professionals. It is a mental illness but it can be cured if they person owns up and admits that they have problem.

You can't help someone who doesn't want help! I know............ my mate died alone probably believing no one cared!

I'm a little emotional over this issue because yrs later I have to still live with it. My mum is giving everyone a hard time again because she refuses to let go of the past. If she lets it all go she has to give up the meds that keep her high. She has exchanged on form of abuse for another. Both get her the attention she craves, she recieved little attention from her own parents and in typical teen behaviour did everything she could to get it, including getting pregnant with me, marrying a man who had an abusive family and who had shown signs of abuse before she got involved with him, She did this against everyone's wishes and against all the evidence her family presented her with. When she had daughter instead of a son, she paid the price and so did I. So when my brother was born, I was pretty much put aside until I was needed to prove abuse.

How do I know all this, because I've listened to everyone sides and the truth is always somewhere in the middle. I am concerned for the child but she is adult and is not listening to reason. Just using ppl to get attention.

Raven

Like Lui has already suggested, this isn't about your situation I am speaking specifically about this article. It's a well known fact that those who commit suicide sometimes decide to warn others of it. But this isn't about suicide, this is about not needing to resort to name calling and mocking the woman who needs help. If you're feeling emotional over the issue then perhaps some counselling could get you back on track with things.

As I said before, I am using my own experience to highlight how sick this woman is and where it could lead to. About the sucide, I was just separating real attempts from attentioning seeking attempts which my mother used to further her own DV situation.

I really should've avoided any emotionally debate considering what I've been thru this last week but DA has brought up an important issue. Rather than look at it from a personal point consider the facts of the case in point and deal it with from there.

It is an illness.

It affects everyone who comes in to contact with them.

The child is in danger.

Only a professional can change this situation.

Signs to look out for are

Repeating the same information to the person.

Continuely refusing any help or any offer of help.

Refusal to see a professional or speak to a professional.

Exaggerating the level of abuse.

Instigating abuse.

Finding any one who will listen.

Refusing to lay charges or failing to go thru with them.

Continually returning to the abuser even when a child or others lives are at stake.

Cheers Raven

Your situation would have been very different, as all situations have, but I can tell you now, there are women out there who even hurt themselves and claim their partners did it to them, when they didn't - the biggest give away being the partner was on a business trip at the time of the alleged abuse and the bruises were fresh.  She did it to gain sympathy and be the centre of attention, and to tell you the truth, her behaviour made me feel very sick.  It made me fear for those in your previous situation, because who'd believe them if other's were out there abusing the trust of others to further their time in the spotlight.

It is a very, very hard area to deal with, the psychology behind victim/s and abuser/s is so complex that no one category will cover it.  This is one area I am not looking forward to in my planned future career, but I have to just the same, because I want to have as much info as possible to make better informed choices.

I've been hit once by a man, and that was enough.  He wasn't game to come near me after that (apparently my eyes turn bright blue when I am furious) and apart from an elbow in the ear at night, I've never been hit again (Les likes my side of the bed as much as his own).  I was abused as a child though (before the age of 2), and I vowed the cycle would stop with me, and it has.

You have a lot of strength too because of your experiences, but they still rule you some what.  I get that though, because once bitten, twice shy.  Taking a step back can be hard, especially if you have been in a similar situation, but false allegations and attention seeking does happen - it is just like hurting oneself regularly and heading to the doctor, because they get attention (known a fair few people who did that too).

Yes a bump on the head can leave emotional scarring, but so can dealing with people who want to remain in those situations because they like the attention- that can make it hard to trust when a situation is genuine and when you are being taken for a ride.

I'm quite aware there are some disturbing cases out there and mine is quite different in comparison. I must admit I got my abuser back just as well as he got me and as a result of it, I'm not afraid to stand up to a fully grown man nor become intimidated by one. I can honestly say for every bruise he gave me, I gave him one or two back. I can understand both points of views but I still think even if she is attention seeking that it's a cry for help and I would still stand by when she fell to help pick up the pieces and move forward.

Remind me to never meet you in a back alley! LOL

There is only so much energy you can expend on one person before you realise they just aren't going to change, and don't want to in some cases.  Having my own family has taught me how important it is to put my energy into them before looking outside of it to help others.  Being around people who don't want to change is very draining and they literally sap the life out of you if you let them.  not only that, but they can turn on you in a flash.

Yes, every woman deserves help.  For me, if the situation in DA's article arose around me (not me going through the abuse), then the best help I could give them would to be calling welfare services for the sakes of the children involved because the children are often not able to stand up for themselves(especially a baby).

The only abuse I want to be a part of is the abuse that I give my computer.  I reckon it will up and leave one day because of the amount of time I spend using it! LOL.

Amen to that, I'm waiting for mine to self destruct and blow up lmao

I agree with calling someone for the well being of her child though. I have a soft spot for the well being of children and her child (and every child for that matter) deserves the best life you can possibly give them. If that isn't a wake up call to her then I don't know what is. It's one thing for a woman to be stupid enough to stay so long, like I did but it's a whole different story when there is an innocent life witnessing and experiecing everything when they don't have to.

So if our computers up and leave, we will know they are galavanting across the country side together! lmao!

When there are children at risk, it is the duty of everyone who knows about the abuse to make that call for the children.  If any thing happened to the kids, then anyone who knew and did nothing is just as guilty as the ones in the abuse.

I tell you what though, I'm getting a bit tired of the splinters I pick up from being a fence sitter.  The view might be interesting, but ouch! lmao!  But that's all part of my future career, so I better have a personal doc on hand with tweazers!

Yes, that was a terrible situation for your friend to be in. Fearing for her life, her kids, where could she go and be safe?... that's the sort of thing that does keep women from leaving and that is the worst of it. I've written a seperate advice about that sort of situation.

This advice is about a girl who isn't being threatened with what might happen if she leaves him, she has no fear of him (in fact if anything she's as abusive to him as he is to her!), she has plenty of support and places to go... and no more excuses left as I said.

Like Arna said, the ones that stay there for the attention it gets them make it so much harder for the genuine ones like your friend.

Yes!!! Here's a question for you: how can we go about getting a law changed?

At the moment, when someone goes to the police about DV, the cops can take statements, arrest the offender, etc... but as soon as the victim is threatened by the offender they drop the charges and the police can no longer do anything! They have to release the offender and pretend nothing happened!!!

This also keeps the door open for people to falsely accuse their partners of abusing them (which is used a form of abuse in itself, and I've known some horribly abusive women that like to play that game!!!) because they can report and press charges and as soon as their victim submits to their will, they drop the charges. Then there are the ones that make false reports just because they're really angry at the person and they drop them once they calm down. (GRR!!!)

If the law can be changed so that once it's reported it can't just be dropped because the victim changed their mind, it removes the ability of offenders to threaten "drop the charges or... " because the victim can't drop them even if they wanted to. It also will make those wanting to use reporting someone for DV falsely think twice. If they can't take it back once it's done, it will give the police more power to investigate it properly, the real offenders will be found guilty and no longer get away with it, and it will free up police time because although they won't be losing those cases to investigate, they won't be having to turn up, arrest someone, do a ton of paperwork, release them, more paperwork, only to have to go back later and arrest them again, release them again, over and over...

It also might save the sanity of our police force and there might be a few less terribly cynical cops around that are a bit more willing to put a bit more effort in to help victims.

And I'd like to know why it is that when someone has been arrested and charged with DV physical assault and is released on bail, they can not only get away with approaching their victim repeatedly, they can repeat the offence and get released on bail a second time!!! If they breach their bail conditions once, why the hell don't they get locked up until their court case? That will stop offenders from sending messages threatening to put a bullet in the victim's brain when they're running around free to do so because they're out on bail yet again and the cops can't/won't do anything about it (oh because anyone could have gotten hold of his mobile phone and sent the messages! Yeah right!), thus forcing the victim to have to give up their entire life including house, pets, friends, family, and run to another state with only what they could pack in a ute, change their entire identity and that of their kids... do you think I'm still very bitter about the laws that screwed my life over?

How the hell do we get them changed???

First you have to lobby pollies! Find out who is in control of that area and write them letter or send an email, generally it is the premier of the state but it may come under another portfolio so you'll have to some research. Check out each politicians portfolio, usually listed on their website.

Write an email/ letter explaining the current law, why it doesn't work and your experience. Question the law but don't get personal and don't insult them.

You will also need to get others to 'lobby' too. Having as many ppl write a generic email/letter stating the same facts and information and where possible their own personal story will help get the law changed. If this does not get the pollies attention, then you need to get a lobby group together. This is the face of the campaign, it is group of ppl representing the ppl affected by the laws. They should all have personal experience and be able to speak in public. They should also be of good character (as the media have a tendancy to tear ppl apart over trivial matters such as police records, drugs etc) and have no police record for anything.

Distributing flyers with all the information about DV, the laws and the inability for the police to act plus the generic email/letter and who it needs to be sent to.

Having a spokesman from the police department will help get the law changed as well as some one from the justus (sp) department or the courts. All these experiences and professionals will help get the law changed.

It's just one step at time and carefully planning each step you take. Check with DV groups as many have been lobbying the government for years for changed.

Lastly make sure you know what and how you want the law to be changed. For DV I would suggest the American law where if both parties are assualted, both are arrested. Immediate lock up and if the offender approaches or contacts a victim through any means, including 3rd party wether they (the offender) asked the 3rd party to or not.

I hope this makes sense.

Cheers Raven

Ok, I'm all out of ideas for getting laws changed - trust you to pick on one of my weak points, which isn't good to admit to on my part considering I want to be a criminal psychologist!  Go on, report me in the daft group, I DARE you! rofl!

No, the laws aren't fair on the victims, and I had no idea what you had been through, though I suppose it isn't something that you can just weave into a conversation.  It must have been so hard for you to do that, and for your kids too.  It explains a lot about you though, and why you have such a strength that is hard to comprehend.  BTW, John Farnham is currently singing 'You're The Voice' this end, spooky!

If laws could be changed though, wouldn't it just send Domestic Abuse further underground?  My concerns are that if a victim can't take back their report, wouldn't it mean they would never make a report to begin with?  It is just so hard to know what to do with Domestic Violence, because of the complexity of the psychology behind it all.  It is heartbreaking watching other people go through it, even though I've never really gone through it myself (been hit once, enough said as he only got the chance to hit me once!), it still hurts because, well, I have a heart and having a heart hurts.

Justice systems around the world are so screwed up that the word 'justice' is just an oxymoron now, for all people involved.  Until real change can be achieved, nothing will ever change, except to get worse.  Makes me wonder what sort of world I've brought 5 children into, which is probably why I want to be a Criminal Psychologist (actually, I want the whole hog- profiler and civilian detective but baby steps) - I want to know why so I can make better sense of it for myself and others.

Our neighbours are always fighting and throwing things at each other, and he always threatens her, but it is 2 sided, she gives as good as she gets.  That is the other aspect of DV, the simbiotic relationship that works with the occassional spat.  Besides, if they stopped, I wouldn't be able to complain about someone getting more action than me - trust me, they need to learn to close their windows or use a gag or something because I am not ready to explain to my kids why they make all that noise.

Oh dear, this was only supposed to be a quick reply, but there doesn't seem to be any such thing where you are concerned.  Duped again! LOL