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Spanking - Is it OK?

wombat68 by wombat68 Young Parent(April 2006) (rank 25th)

We all remember being clipped on the head or backside by our parents.  "Probably deserved it!", we say.  But I think there are good reasons to avoid physical violence in the home, no matter what the circumstances are.

"Spanking is my last resort!" - That's exactly

the time not to use it, because it means that you are using violence to solve your own feelings of powerlessness--a powerless parent.  You aren't thinking straight at that moment and do not consider that you've probably got a lot of the responsibility for letting things get out of hand.

"It's a tough world out there and my children have to learn their lessons." - I think you'll find that children are more confident about themselves and more ready to deal with the adult world, if they have received a lot of understanding and support from their parents throughtout their childhood.  It is exactly the lack of understanding and support that leads children into abuse and anti-social lifestyles.  It's a harsh world, but we don't have to make the home a harsh world.  Kids will develop much better if the home is special, where they can take risks, try new things, and be supported.  They need to have boundaries. But they can be established without beating each other up.

"But he would have hurt himself or someone else!" - Children may do bad things and endanger others' safety, but their inability to comprehend consequences is nothing more than a lack of adequate experience and awareness.  Help them to understand the world and not to fear it.  Don't expect small children to show remorse or sympathy.  They don't develop these emotions until much later in their childhood, probably first at 8 years old.  And they only do that, if they have a family environment that is supportive and caring, where their needs are taken seriously.

"I had no alternative!" - There are lots of alternatives, but they generally require more consistent application and more preventative action.  Show me a child that is misbehaving and I'll show you a list of things about the immediate situation and relationships that are causing the problem.  Most often, parents have not taken steps to avoid situations getting out of hand.  If you don't give your kids some quality time during the day, at some stage they are going to withdraw from you and misbehave.  If they've been watching TV for too long and have disconnected from the world.  Are bored.  There are lots of reasons. The main disciplinary tool is social rejection, e.g. timeouts. However, this will not work if the child doesn't feel included more often than they feel not included.  If you don't have fun with your kid, you will never be accepted as a legitmite authority and listen to you..

A child's behavior is part of a system of relationships that create an environment which will encourage or discourage good behaviour.  I think we owe to our beutiful children that we try to rethink the world we are creating for them in the home and try to change our ways to create a better space for them.

That's why I think we should discuss alternatives to spanking, and in particular what we may have to change about ourselves to become a more effective and good parents.

By the way--spanking is illegal in the following countries because of the links to negative social behavior when children become adults (see external link for more):

"In Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Croatia, Cyprus, Latvia, Italy, Israel, Germany and Austria, it is illegal for a parent, teacher, or anyone else to spank a child. In some states and provinces, it is only illegal for a teacher to spank. In all areas of North America, physical punishment by a parent, as long as it is not severe, is still seen by many as necessary discipline, and condoned, or sadly, even encouraged. "

Wombat

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llmunchkin
July 2007 | llmunchkin
Re: Spanking - Is it OK?
You know, the question of whether to discipline by physical means - slapping, smacking, spanking etc has been raised a few times lately.  I am not judging anybody who chooses to use these means of discipline, however these are some questions that have been going round and round in my head today...

1.   At what age do people decide it is ok to do this to their infant/child?
2.   At what age would they cease doing this to their child/teenager?
3.   How would they feel if somebody else disciplined their child in this manner?
4.   Do they consider that if they did the same to their spouse - that it would be domestic violence?
5.   What if they did it to someone outside the family - then it would be assault?
6.   Have they tried alternative forms of discipline?
7.   Don't they worry that their children will fear them - not respect them?
8.   When does spanking change from strict discipline to abuse?
9.   How successful is this form of punishment - does the child learn a lesson from what they did wrong - or do  they only remember the punishment?
10. What gives us the right to inflict pain on our offspring, when it would be illegal to do it to anyone else?
11. Why would we want to inflict pain on our own children, when we have so many alternatives available?
12. What kind of example is being provided to them, by using corporal punishment - what have they learned?

These are the simple questions - I have more complex ones, however these are things I just couldn't comprehend... I am putting this everywhere now - I challenge someone to provide me with intelligent answers, that explain why physical punishment is better than reasoning with and teaching your child better, safer, more acceptable ways to do things.


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MadMel
1.00 (Very Poor) | May 2007 | MadMel
hmmm
im sorry. I see a lot of your points are great and yes there are other methods of discipling that might work for others but for me there were a couple of occasions where a tap on the bum or hand worked where other methods like the corner, being told no, explaining the dangers etc didn't work.

Would have been a better advice article and gotten a better ranking if it wasn't so one sided.


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angelmum
5.00 (Excellent) | August 2006 | angelmum
I agree
I agree, I grew up in a family of 5 boys and 2 girls, not once did our parent use spanking as a form of punishment, mum and dad taught us that no form of violence is acceptable.  If its wrong to lash out and hit another adult why should it ever be right to hit a child.  I could not imagine how it would make me feel if my mother or father hit me so how would a child feel.  I have explained to my kids about dangers with cars ect, but it is down to me to be there protector. 


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brightfour
3.00 (Average) | May 2006 | brightfour
Disagree at least partially
How do you impress upon a 2 year-old the severity of running away from a parent? In a parking lot or near the road such an action could be deadly. Or when you see her reaching for a hot stove, or about to put something into a wall socket. Sure you can prevent all of these, but it only takes once.

No there are times when no other form of punishment is even remotely effective. Let the child burn herself would serve the same purpose but is that a kindness? A hand to the diaper is not abuse when it is used to communicate the consequences of her action.

That said, once a child is 3 or 4, I can't see corporal punishment as usefull in any capacity.


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      wombat68
3.67 (Good) | May 2006 | wombat68
Re: Disagree at least partially
I agree that it is very important to teach children to avoid being run over. But I have never needed to do it with a current child at 2 and a 6 year old. You just have to hold them and be very careful in those situations. The problem with hitting them is that I don't think they understand why you are doing it. It is beyond the comprehension of a child at that age. Why can I run away and play in some situations and be by my self and yet in others I cannot? Remember that you can't expect a child to differentiate situations.
My advice is that you have to control the situation. If they runaway, its the parent's fault and not the child's. Certainly not necessary or fair or effective to strike the child.

With regards to hot things, letting them touch something hot while you are in control of the situation will be a more effective procedure. Hitting them when they reach for something dangerous will only mean that when you are not around they will try again. They may even touch the object just to be rebelious or gain attention. Remember that young children do not have sophisticated skills to analyse situations. Often the connections we try to make between bad or dangerous things and striking only confuse the child and increase anxiety, without any learning taking place at all other than that my parent is aggressive.

Wombat


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           NannyMumTrudi
5.00 (Excellent) | July 2006 | NannyMumTrudi
Disagree at least partially

I totally agree with you Wombat. Since I've worked in childcare for 18 years I obviously have never been able to (and wouldn't have wanted to) use physical punishment. I have never needed to as because my demeanor to children is generally very friendly, praising, encouraging, fun and loving when I need to give short sharp discipline like privilage removal, or time out or simply to give a warning it has been super-effective because of the strong contrast. Children don't want me to get cross because they like me better when I'm pleased.

I do however know that it's not that easy with your own child. Having a daughter of my own who doesn't always listen or behave appropriately (although generally she is good and well behaved) I understand that however consistent you are children will ALWAYS misbehave and that's fine. They aren't robots and for goodness sake we aren't perfect. How many of us have broken a piece of best china, stepped out onto a busy road while distracted and got a fright or accidentally burned our fingers on a hot stove? Do we need someone to clip us round the ear for that? It wouldn't help us to not do that again would it? It would only make us feel nervous that the next time we made a mistake we would get hit! Smacking/spanking makes children fear and be nervous around the offending adults. It also effects their self esteem since it makes them fear making mistakes or trying new things because they might get punished for it. They will not be able to remember why they got smacked a  few hours after the event or the next day, only that they got smacked.

Also how can we expect children to not hit out when they are frustrated if we hit them when we are frustrated?? We are actually teaching them that we do not mean what we say and that hitting is actually acceptable. Crazy if you think about it.

In the UK our laws are as follows...

"Smacking is not completely prohibited. Whether a physical punishment is legal or not will depend on the factors detailed previously under 'changes in the law'. However, smacking is not advisable as a method of disciplining children since it:

Can be dangerous - it is easy to forget how delicate children are, particularly if you are frustrated or angry. What feels to you like a light slap can have the potential to cause real harm to a small child.

Sets children the wrong example - rather than correcting misbehaviour, it can teach children to hit out at people who are doing things they don't like or who don't do what the child wants them to do.

Has effects which last long after the physical pain dies away - young children will not necessarily associate the punishment with their behaviour. It can make them angry and resentful and can be damaging to their confidence and self-esteem.

Smacking is not an effective way to teach children discipline

'Smacking' is only one word used by parents in Scotland for physical punishment. Others include spanking, hitting and slapping. This leaflet applies to all forms of physical punishment.

don't children need to be taught discipline?

Yes. Discipline helps children learn right from wrong and to understand how to get along with people around them. But discipline should not be about instilling obedience or inflicting physical punishment.

Discipline is about showing children how to behave in ways which are acceptable to their parents and to others.

By explaining how and why they should behave in different situations, and by praising and rewarding them when they behave well, parents will encourage their self-discipline and self-esteem. This approach might initially take a little work and time, but it is more effective than criticism and punishment and it makes life at home less stressful for everyone.

discipline and young children

Young children can be too inquisitive for their own good and keeping them safe is hard work. But babies and young toddlers are too young to understand why they are being smacked, so that's not the answer.

Research showed that toddlers and pre-school children were the most likely group to be smacked. When asked by researchers, parents said that when they do smack their children it is usually in moments of particular stress and that afterwards they feel guilty about it.

Almost all respondents to the consultation agreed that, whether or not smacking was ever justified, it is better to bring up children using non-physical discipline methods. Alternative approaches include giving the child a task or chore to do or taking away a treat.

and for older children

As children get older, they begin to learn how to live independently, without the constant support of their parents. However, they do still need help and guidance.

Parents told our researchers that, with older children, negotiation is essential. Teenagers will never agree with their parents about everything but they need to know that their views are listened to and respected. Arguments are always best avoided and non-physical punishments are far more likely to work. Options include grounding, withdrawing privileges such as TV or computer games, or withholding pocket money. These are seen by parents to be a far more effective method of discipline with older children."

That is the information on this web page... http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2003/10/18406/28339 I suppose because I live in the UK where most people now agree that smacking/spanking is not effective and is in fact very harmful as it sets a bad example and affects self esteem greatly, I don't really understand why anyone would defend smacking/spanking as a good way to punish children.

Physical punishment is just that -a punishment! It does not teach anything nor is it a consequence, and only serves to help the parent when they feel that nothing else will get their child to behave. Parents use it as a way to keep control and to enforce their will on their child. If it really were right why then would you feel guilty when you have done it? Guilt is there for a reason to let us know that what we are doing may be wrong or we could be doing better, or to stop us from doing something bad.

I'm sorry to hark on about this but I feel so strongly. I remember when I was a child being chased round the dining table and caught and smacked really hard. So hard it left marks on my skin, yet can I remeber one single thing I did to deserve it? No. Did I learn from it and stop misbehaving? No. Can I still remember the fear and panic I felt as I tried to escape? Yes.Did it harm my self esteem and make me feel resentful and distrustful? Yes!

The comment about stopping when the child grows older is silly I feel as what age will you stop? On your child's third birthday or will it creap closer to the forth birthday or the fifth? If you have been using it as a discipline technique (I don't feel it should be in the same sentence as "discipline technique") will your child simply adjust to a new method, or will he be confused and start to rebel as he feels that he can suddenly "get away with things"? I have found through my years of experience that the latter is always true.

For more information on effective discipline and positive parenting techniques which you can use to shape your child's behaviour before even resorting to consequesnces, see my website http://www.ask-nanny.com/ and don't forget to quote MINT for your 10% discount on consultations. The ebook "How to shape behaviour and discipline fairly" is really useful for changing a child's behaviour without ever having to smack! http://www.ask-nanny.com/ebooks.html

Nanny/Mummy Trudi



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rachelcook
3.63 (Good) | April 2006 | rachelcook
I agree
Yep I agree...there are many other things you can do..just watch the supernanny!!! I think our kids are smart to understand other forms of non-physical punishment...great advice


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ClayCook
3.83 (Good) | April 2006 | ClayCook
I plan to have the strength.
I tend to agree with your advice.
It is not easy though sometimes!


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