My query to all those who say cutting is cleaner and boys can't clean themselves is this.  Would you have your daughters labia(clitoris remaining) removed if she did not wash herself properly? No  What if she got lots of UTI's? No What if the labia started to adhere? No.  Then apply this logic to the male genitalia.  Girls have no option but to practice good hygeine, males should be given the same responsibility.

my son has a natural circumcision,so i was lucky i didnt have to make such a hard decision

 Both of my boys are uncircumcised, but my husband and I still have disagreements about the matter. As a mother, and a woman who grew up in a family of girls, I still get nervous sometimes about properly taking care of it or hurting them. The fact of the matter is, is there is simply not enough preparation and education about it out there. You are quoted statistics about how it's not necessary, but you are not usually instructed about the proper care and just what to expect. 

 It's not all about how "hygienic"  a country you live in. Problems can happen where ever you live and however clean you are, circumcised or not. It really is a matter of choice - what you think would be best for your child and family. Circumcision is not butchering and not circumcising is not disgusting. 

 And as far as other guys or girls having a problem with how it looks, they shouldn't be looking then. In sexual activity I don't think there is much of a difference in looks anyway. But if a girl won't be with someone not circumcise for anything but religious reasons, well, then in my opinion they don't need to be with that person. You need to find someone who is going to love you for who you are and nothing else. 

Well I have 5 boys and with boy no 1 I was heavily pressured by my mil mainly, but I also had stupid people telling me ''to do the right thing for his girlfriends sake' and more stupid me for listening. I really regret  it now.

When my second son was born I thought  I would just have to get it done because my first boy was done. Luckily I had somebody to convince me that it didnt matter.

So I have my oldest boy circed and 4 younger ones uncirced. I dont think it really matters that much about them being different, You just have to explain what a foreskin is and why they have one and their dad and brother don't. But I think all new parents of a boy need to consider carefully and not just do it because it will look a certain way or because what other people will think.

I think to have it done "just so the baby looks like there dad" is a disgusting excuse. Does it really matter if father and son have different penises?? Boys are born with a foreskin, why fix whats not broken? If there is a medical condition or foreskin problems run in the family then yes i agree to do it. If there is no medical problem why would you want to put this newborn baby in so much pain? I FOUND THIS  Even with the plastibell method, the glans and the foreskin of the penis have to be forcibly separated (ie torn from each other) for the bell to be inserted beneath the forskin - and given how many nerve endings are in the foreskin I can only imagine that would be incredibly painful without anaesthetic.

If the baby had an infection i think treat it before circimsicing. Or does that mean if a female gets thrush her flaps should be cut cut?? Sorry but this gets me really upset. If parents reallyw ant to get it done i think they should wait until the child is old enough for pain releif.

I am so glad the trend is changing. If it is not medically necessary then it shouldn't be done. I agree with that in all operations especially for children.

 I have two boys, and this was a very interesting discussion with me and my wife. I grew up in NZ and the UK, where to the best of my knowledge, most do not circumcise unless for medical or religous reasons. In America, most just have it done, as it's pretty much a tradition: everybody else has it done, everybody else has always had it done, so I will too. Many claim cleanliness as a reason over here, but come on! It's the West, people. These days we are hygenic, and if your son knows how to clean himself, there should be no reason to do it.

As a non-circumcised man, I wanted my sons to look like me. It'll be easier to describe body parts if it all looks the same. And I hold that for the other side too- go with whatever the father is. 

For me, I pretty much was told I was a bad father and hurting my child by not having this done. This came from the church, medical practitioners, family and friends. There was a lot of peer pressure and negativity surrounding my unborn son's penis.

Neither of my two sons got circumcised, and we never really had a problem. The only slight problem was with the younger one got a little ooze once, when his foreskin started retracting, but hadn't gone all the way. This was uncomfortable during diaper changes for a few days, and really pained us as parents. But we kept them clean, and taught them how to clean themselves, and they're fine.

Either way you decide to go, I applaud you for being good enough parents to research this and find out the best path to take for your children and your family. Stand strong, and don't take crap from anybody.

Peace,

-firebrand

It's wrong, damned wrong, severely, completely and utterly senseless, useless and cruel. If there is a medical reason (usually infection, which can be avoided anyway) then by all means. However, no, just no.

I did just because my husband is, and he wanted all three of our boys to "look" like him.  He thought that it would be easier to explain how the body works if they were all the same.

I agree with GillLP, you are made to feel guilty. My nephew isn't circumize and his mother gave me such a hard time about our boys. Altough when he turned 5 she decided to have him cirumsized for hygine. I feel bad that he had to go through it now than when he was a baby.

I'm also from Perth (like Rachel), and I found the antenatal classes were heavily biased against circumcision. There was no balance at all. So for those of us for whom it was a religious decision, we were left with a choice of guilt, whichever way we chose to go.

IMHO please wait until your child is old enough to make the dicission himself.

They outlawed female circumcission for a reason. They should do the same for males it is mutilation with out consent. Do you really want your son to be changing at the pool or something and realise he is the only boy who looks different.

THE PENIS CAN BE TOTALY CUT OFF IN THIS PROCEDURE

I struggled with this for a while.  I did a lot of research and what I came up with is. 

Pro's:

May provide protection against STD's --no definitive proof --; Will reduce the odds of penile cancer;  one more to come later.

Con's

It will hurt - no doubt but I went through it and don't remember anything from when I was an infant still it will hurt but so does getting a little girl's ears pierced; It is surgery there is risk, a risk that can be avoided.

What sold me was a forum I stumbled across of older men who had been uncircumsized but for one reason or another had to have it done.  These were guys in their 20's 30's 40's and 50's who all said contrary to what people (women and uncut men) would have you believe is that the sex was actually better after the circ than before.  Better sensation yep from guys that had, had it both ways.  Being that I have always been totally satisfied with my sex life and sensations I decided to have my son done.

There are reasons good/bad to do it and not to do it.  In the end it is a judgement call.  Again as a "cut" guy I am completely satisfied with my body, and am glad my parents cared enough to make a choice.  The fact that you are asking this question or reading these forums shows that whatever choice you make will be the right choice, because you care.  Good luck Parents.               

YES YES YES ...Alot of people are against it these days so just decide by yourself, and I dont care but you try to tell a little boy to clean it properly and they will ..yeah right even when there older they can clean it all they want but when its hot and they get sweaty down there its not good ..smelly  ...(my partner before was not done) not good..

my son was done he was born on 24.10.04 he was small and sick so we held of to have it done as this is what we wanted to do and his dad was done my brother and my own father also was done so we wanted the same for him even though my hubbys cousins son didnt come out of it to well they ended up cuting a small part of the head of his penis off wasnt good its ok now though and even knowing this it didnt change my mind...I live in NSW and went to sydney to see about having it done a 5 hour drive from home to be told that they dont do it anymore unless it was our religion or medically or I payed $1500 or more to have it done I was devistated so when we got home I went looking on the internet about it and found a website www.circumcision.com.au a doctor terry russell from around the brisbane area QLD so I rang and they got me in within 3 weeks of ringing it was on the 6.6.06 so my son was a bit older than I had like him to be but the girls at the surgery and doctor russell were lovely I recommend him to anyone needing to have this procedure done they do it with a plastic bell they call it so that way there is no stitching they gave him a shot of something to calm him down took him away I never heard a cry come out of the room 10 to 20 mins later they brought him out and he was fine and in a matter of 3 weeks it was perfect  the bell falls off on its own ,he had a little discomfort when trying to wee as it got better only a couple of times he would cry when weeing but it wasnt  to bad, I followed his instructions and everything went fine and he hasnt looked back ...so if I have another son I know where I will be heading too hopfully I wont have to wait as long to get it done, if I have a boy next I will be booking in asap ...It cost me about $600 to have it done but got alot back through medicare not that it mattered as I wanted it done anyway...and it was a lot better than $1500 odd dollars ... if anyone wants any details about this doctor  please let me know I will be happy to help out I told him if I had another boy I will be back.....no worries...

I have 3 boys and they are all done ,my husband was done at an older age due to medical reasons as he had alot of problems peeing and was alot more traumatic for him  and his parents as it had to be done with surgery.

When our 1st son was born we went to a local GP and he said here in our Nth Queensland  tropical climate it is best he explained to us that in the war the Australian men did not suffer as many infections  as other soldiers from other countries due to the lack of showering and personal hygene as most were circumcised .

When we had our youngest son done (now 6 )it was harder to find a DR that would do it (especially in Mackay anyway)so my advice is that if you wish to have your son circumcised and know you are having a boy to find a GP that will do the circumcision before your son is due as the procedure has to be done within the 1st 10 days of birth.

hi guys

i have 2 boys and they havn't been done,i didn't want them to go thru un necessary pain.it was never an option when they were born.if they want to get it done when they are older then we will look at it then but for now i am happy with my decision

they don't like to do them anymore so it must be fine to be uncircumcised.

I have two boys ages 6 and 2 and neither of them are circumcised as i just don't think that now days it's necessary. There is so much more awareness now about how to look after the foreskin and i have found that by making my son aware ( the 6 year old) of why he needs to clean it and by making it a part of his bath routine it just isn't an issue for him. He doesn't see it as either a chore or an embarresment as we just don't make a big deal of it, it's just another part of his body that he needs to keep clean. There is constantly news items either in the paper or on the news discussing the for's and against's but there has never been any real evidence that it needs to be done and until there is i just don't see how anyone can justify putting their beautiful newborn baby through such horrible pain. UNLESS as others have said that they have had it done for medical reasons as that is obviously necessary. Just my 2 cents!!

Amanda. 

We decided not to circumcise my boy after realising that it can't be done unless you pay big dollars to have it done as a "cosmetic procedure".  And learning of some of the horrific things that can go wrong - and they do go wrong!

Unfortunately when he was 18 months old it became apparant that his foreskin was tightly fused to the head of his penis, and we had to have him circumcised.

After seeing the pain he went through as an older boy having the procedure, I still would not circumcise a new born next time around.  What Jayden went through was unfortunate, but if a man learns to take care of his foreskin (I mean come on men, who of you dont?) its a regular part of a mans body.  Why remove it?

After all the trauma of being born, why the hell would you then go and slice a part of their little baby bodies off?  It should be illegal.

Louise

Have you seen the medical science saying unsnipped men have a higher chance of contacting HIV? If that's the only straw on the camel's back I think it weighs enough to break it and would cause you to lean towards having it done. Take my word for it- he won't remember a thing. And years later when he asks why, you can tell him it was for his own good.

My kids are both adults.So I'm not a young MUM.Hope that's OK.I think this procedure should be done.A lot of germs can get caught under the skin if not cleansed properly .I personally think it's looks better.I've asked my kids about this ( son-daughter ) and they agree.

regards Bianka

Quite sad, that so many boy's get circumcised without the need. Coming from Europe, I actually thought circumcision is done in Africa and by moslem, unless it is for medical reasons.

I never thought, it is done so often. What for? Not enough knowledge, how to deal with an uncircumcised boy, how to clean his little friend? But at the time where we at, there is lots of information on the net and you should never be afraid to talk to your GP, if in doubt.

I wouldn't circumcise my boy unless it has to be done.

My hubby and I were in agreeance before the birth of our son. My husband wasn't, and had always felt 'different' to his mates and brother. My brother was, but for medical reasons at 15 months and I can still remember my mother crying that she wished they had done him when he was born.  But the Doc soon changed our minds when he explained the procedure to us. There was no way we were going to put our child through that pain unless it was absolutley necessary.

I had another 3 boys after that and have 3 grandsons, all of whom have not been done, but I too am astounded by the lack of education for parents on this subject. No one ever told me or showed me how to clean them, in fact my youngest boy was 5 before I even found out that you were meant to. Luckily none of them have had any problems, but my eldest son was devastated when we discovered that he should have been pulling the foreskin back when he urinates. He was 16 and had never done so. After much intense conversations with his mates, he discovered that none of them did either and none have had any problems. The younger boys are very 'particular' about cleaning it in the bath and even more so about ensuring that it is dry afterwards so I guess we have just been lucky.

The conversation with my son and his mates regarding urination did enlighten me to the fact that none of them are done, none of them have had any problems and they all prefer it that way. They all believed that their parents had made the right decision in leaving it up to them to have done if they wanted to.

In regards to the hiv risk, latest figures show that circumcision reduces the risk by approxiametly 50% and that in Africa where HIV and AIDS are still a major problem, the procedure is highly recommended and sought after. However in Australia and other western countries, good personal hygene and the use of condoms should be enough.  

Hi Rachel. i just want to say a HUGE thankyou. we have had this debate many times in our household. My partner wanted our son circumcised as he is. I really didnt know what to think. YES id do it becuase i remember my oldest brother having many complications with his and had to get it done at age 14 ( bad timing for a young teenage boy!). No because, why do it if its not neccesary? it is a HUGE debate, and i totally agree we dont get enough info. I have only gone by trial and error in cleaning the penis, as my partner has never had to clean under the foreskin as it was removed at birth!  SO we have decided to leave it till he gets older and just try our best to divert any infections. if worse cones to worse, then we will get it done. Thanks so much for your article. im glad to hear im not the only one with this dillema!

jade

Well this has been a bit of a hot topic hasnt it?

When I had my son my husband (who is circumsized) wanted our son to get the procedure. But after my own research i didnt want it done.

I couldnt understand why my husband wanted this done to our son, because when he had it done they actually done something wrong and now it hurts if its touched the wrong way and sometimes during sex. Why he would want to put my son at risk of that, i dont know.

The thing is these days we are very hygenic we wash atleast once a day and know how to keep ourselves clean. Therefore i believe that it is not nessasary.

Although i think the decision is personal, im not going to tell anyone what to do with there own children.

Its something that cant be changed, and its something that cany be decided quickly. I figure if my son really wants it done for whatever reason when he is older i would be happy to pay for it for him. But its his member and therefore his decision.

Im going to teach him the best i can how to be hygenic and hopefully the procedure will not be nessasary for him.

What i dont understand is why, when we are at the hospital, why dont they show or tell us how to clean it, they dont reccomend the procedure anymore but they dont help us to make sure the procedure isnt nessasary down the track.

I am glad I only had girls because I have seen the procedure been done and if you are told it does not hurt, then can someone please explain why baby boy's scream so loud? I say if you have ever cut yourself pretty bad does it not hurt and sometimes it hurts for days so please think how your baby boy's would feel. JUST SAY NO............ 

Apparently for hygiengic reasons this is practiced in parts Africa even today.  Fine by me,  I think I probably may agree if i lived in one of those areas.  But before my daughter was born her father brought this up.  He heard of a guy in london who would do it for £100.  A fraction of the cost of a private procedure.  I was terrified! he maintained that a girlie circumcision was not necessary, (whew!) but a male one would be - because that was what happened in Africa. 

Hello?  We are living in the UK right now. 

We never came to a proper compromise, although I did speak to my friend who is a Urology Nurse Specialist and she spoke to one of the consultants who would have done it for me on the NHS had it needed addressing.  You will never know my relief when we heard we had a daughter. 

Although dealing with this issue when a male is older, be they a child, teen or adult is horrendous - at least they have not suffered the pain unnecessarily as a baby.  It is a decision which, when taken, is neither right nor wrong, it just is.  And whatever happens in the future - well that is life.

Great article.  Thanks.
EF.x 

I have 3 boys, so I have had to make this decision, and I chose not to circumcise, as I believe this is a mostly unecessary and cruel procedure. In cases where it is a medical requirement then so be it. Just because the procedure is available does not mean it should be carried out on those who have no voice in the matter. They used to whip tonsils out at the drop of a hat too, its no longer done unless its medically required due to the risks involved, same as circumcision. All medical procedures have risks. Iits very important to realise that our children are gifts to us, to be looked after and loved, and shown the way in life by us. The removal of a piece of skin isn't going to make a difference to who our children grow to be - we will make that difference!

hi evry1

just wanted to insert comment after re-reading my message (23/10/06 2.45pm)

---which may be obvious but i don't want this topic to be taken lightly because with anything there are risks..

anyway getting to point of this message. i stated we took my first born in for circum were told to come back in 15mins...and so on

we had previously had an intense consultation beforehand to get the full pros and cons and all information concerning  this procedure.. and then asked to come back a couple days later after thinking about it..

just making sure no-one took that the wrong way.

thanks again for listening

hi . i have two boys and both are circumsized.

Everyone is right in this discussion

 its certainly a tough decision to make when your faced with this choice, its a hard choice as parents to decide what is right for our kids at this delicate part of their life>>but we have too!

and we do this because they are unable to do this.

if our children turn around at 16yrs old and shows me info on uncircumsized boys i guess id be thinking what are the more underlying problems to his searching and worries... 

we'd talk it out get to the problems and also explain our choices  and hope that it wouldnt be held against us and wouldnt affect the way he carries himself in life..

i had my first son done at 12days old my partner and i walked into doc's surgery> they said come back in 15 mins and it will be finished.. it seemed to easy i'm trying not to make this sound like some easy transaction but when we came back my son was sound asleep on the nurses arm and procedure went

well without problems.

it wasnt made a big deal with our first boy  in 1999 but for our second in 2003 things had changed and people were more aware of this controvertial decision.

i had to search for someone to do the procedure as liability was now a factor, and it had tripled in price because of this.

my 2nd son was done at 15days old by a different doctor ( a doc who has studied and done research into circumsion) and also a different procedure to my first but still a problem free result..

 I would strongly recommend getting it done as early as possible, less chance of infection and less fears. (as some of men have writen in previous advise)

my nephew of 8 has not had procedure, has many problems with it. always touching and pulling which has led to infection..its very hard to get him to take charge and clean it properly

so,as it has been said as they get older it is a responsibility they need to undertake and you can only tell them so many times.

 but its in there hands... so to speak.

our choice to do it was because their father was done and it would be generally cleaner and healthier that way..

i think its up to the individual PARENTS.

just my thoughts on topic. thanks for reading

we walked out pas

Let me tell you what a man thinks and I will tell you to get it done as soon as you can. Its been done for a thousand years and will still be done a thousand years from now. Keep these facts in mind before you make the choice for your child. One reason is hygine, easy  to clean and no infections. My sister never sniped her boys and she has nothing but trouble with infections. Its easy to make sure a babys micky is clean, are you still going to clean it when he as 7,8,9,10, years old. Boys at that age need to be held down to have a bath let alone clean the package. Infections can lead to infertility, my friends boy is now 26 and is infertile due to infections and had to have a snip at 24 , you want to talk about pain, he was sore for 2 months. Also, any woman that I've talked to in this part of the world would rather see a helmut than an anteater, looks are something you dont think about when they are babys, but when they get older looks are important. When they become sexualy active it becomes easyier to take care of also. Less chance of a yeast infection and any activity they partake in you have to head to the shower or risk an infection. My uncle had to have one done at 53 years old because he tore his forskin having sex, the only reason he waited so long to get done was when you get snipped at any age after 5 days old the pain is unberable. Its a hygine and looks choice thats it, it looks better and easy to take care of tthats all. It will make life easy for all, mom , baby and dad. Infections in infants and the hassels of ensuring a 11 year old is cleaning his mickey can be avoided with a 30 sec procedure that will make life a whole lot more simple for the little dude.

After reading this I am tempted to hope for a girl so we don't have to make the decision. - Just kidding, I don't mind if our baby is a boy or a girl I just hope he or she is healthy.

My 3 year old nephew was not circumsised but now has to have it done for medical reasons. I heard my brother telling mum that he wishes he has chosen to have it done when his son was a baby.

Haydon and I had already discussed it prior to my nephew's situation and decided not to have it done if we have a boy.  We may yet change our minds. Tough decision

Although, I do not have a son, I do feel that unless it is medically necessary, this sort of decision should be made by the person whose body it affects.  If it isn't necessary, then why put the baby through the pain.  If the baby as an adult chooses to have circumcision then it is his choice.  We always take about a woman's choice to do with her body as she chooses, should men (boys) not be afforded the same consideration.

One of the questions, i asked myself when I realised I was having a boy, was to

circumsize or not? My partner and I thought yes as he was circumsized and it would

save the odd questions when older, but were talked out of it by the doctor's.

Unfortunatley we were forced to get our son circumsized due to bending of the penis

when he got an erection, when he was 18 months old. And subsenquently he is

now terrified of doctors as he was awake when the procedure was performed, which

we were told was normal, if  it is necessary for you too circumsize your child when

they are older due to medical reasons please inquire if they can be put under a general

anthestic as it is much less traumatic for them, and for you.

When I had my son, the doctor was under the impression that circumcision was a grand thing. He left an impression on me that if I didn't have this done to my son, he would have all sorts of problems. So pushing aside my instincts, my husband and I agreed. Little did I know that this would come up again some 16 years later, when my son told me he had researched it after finding out a friend of his was intact. He showed me a lot of information, and that's when I knew I had made a mistake. But no matter how much I learned about it and the lifelong consequences that could never be fixed, none of it hurt as bad as when he looked at me one day with such sad eyes, and asked why I had let the procedure be done to him. Why had I made such a permanent decision for his own body, long before he could object or offer an opinion. I will never forget that look, and that is why I urge parents to not have it done if their child is healthy. Let him decide when he is mature enough to make an informed decision, that way he also has say over how much is cut and what is and isn't cut if he decides to be circumcised.

I was a mother of the 70's and our son was NOT circumsised.  A Doctor (not mine) insisted all mothers of beautiful baby boys in the hospital came to witness a circumsision.  I had previously investigated the pros and cons, but this certainly made up my mind.  Of our two precious little grandsons now, one is not circumsised and one is.  The one who has been has had no problems, but in my babysitting days, I saw an awful complication of one surgery, which probably influenced me too.  If it isn't broken, why fix it?

This subject has been interesting for me to read, partly because I never realised that  circumcision was considered the "norm" in so many areas. I don't know whether it is because of where I am from, or by whom I was brought up, by the thought to circumcise my boy never even entered my head. This is just not a decision I even need to contemplate. I can understand those with religious views opting for this procedure but I guess that I have faith in the human body that there are few such strong design faults that a foreskin is an inherent cause of infection. I know that the males in my family and my partner's family have not had this procedure carried out, and neither of us are aware of any problems as a result.

I suppsoe that I am against the idea of unnecessary medical altering, although I also go for the "live and let live" attitude that a parent should not be condemned for making an informed decision about their child. My only rider on this is that I am also against the idea of babies having their ears pierced by parents. I feel that a person should be allowed to make their own mind up on a subject and it may well be that in later life, they take against the fact that they have been circumsiced / had their ears pierced or any similar thing. My daughter has a strong birthmark on her forehead. I anticipate that it will fade, but if it doesn't, I won't do anything about that. When she is old enough to express a logical and rational opinion about whether or not she wants laser surgery, that is when we will consider action. Not before.

So, I am glad people are comfortable with the decisions they have made. I will always hold a reservation about the need for this and I do honestly hope that the procedure falls from favour and becomes something done through necessity than desire, particularly as someone may grow up wishing this had never been done to them. However, I would hate to live in a society where your choice as a parent over a relatively minor issue makes you open to abuse and ridicule.

It is so refreshing to read peoples experiences relating to this contentious issue. I have read discussions about circumcision in other forums and have been saddened by the attitudes of so called openminded people. Apparently "open minded" means think the way I do or watch out! 

We chose to have our beautiful boy circumsised when he was 5 days old and I don't regret it in the least. We had made the decision before the birth (before even knowing we were having a boy). The paediatrician was hell bent on talking us out of it, as were the nurses - but we had made the decision and they eventually realised that we had thought long and hard about it.  For us it was the right decision - for others it isn't - doesn't that just reflect what a wonderful world it is that all of us now have the right to make these decisions without being judged and our children will grow up with differences being embraced instead of ridiculed.

Hi Rachel

I also had the 'do we/don't we' debate about circumcision when my son was born.  I am pretty much against anything that may hurt my child in anyway (nomatter how small), so for me the decision was an easy one.  Not having a partner and no religious (must circumsize) leanings also helped.  I think that you have covered all areas here and allowed for parents to make up their own minds regarding this very sensitive topic.  Well done!

Cheers
Tina