Oh my, I thought this website was designed to allow parents and professionals to exchange ideas in order to help each other out. I didn't realize it was a place to "one up" each other with one's ideas, and go as far as to name call. It seems highly inappropriate to call someone a lazy parent based on a post that was obviously not even read in its entirety, and when you don't know that person at all.

As for the reasoning capabilities of a 3-year old, they are not cognitively advanced enough to reason. That is a fact. It is not meant as some kind of insult to your child personally, or a slam on their character or intelligence. Ask any 3 year old to explain to you, with their own "reasoning" and in their own words (not the ones you've repeated to them and they've memorized), what is wrong about getting lost. Developmentally, they do not have the ability to predict consequences unless they have experienced them. They cannot differentiate between today, yesterday, and tomorrow. They can not judge what is best for them unless they are taught, not just told. I'm sensing that there is some semantic issue with the word "reasoning," enough of one to elicit insults.

I am not a lazy mother. As my advice clearly stated, it is important to give explanations and follow up with them as well. But those in and of themselves are fruitless. A child that seems to do, or not do, something based on your lecturing alone (and no first hand experience), is only doing so to please you, or avoid consequences, not because in their wisdom and reasoning, have determined that it is an inappropriate thing to do. Otherwise, why would they need parents?

The advice I offered this mother was intended to not only offer experiential suggestions, but to give her some perspective on child development, and how that effects a child's ability to be disciplined. Having taught parenting classes for 8 years, counseled countless children and families, and specializing in child development and behavior, I thought I might have something to offer. I never imagined that I would be attacked for it. I truly hope the original poster has gained a lot of insight into the problem and has gathered the suggestions she sees fit. She is the only one who knows her child and will ultimately make the best decision for her. For people to argue over it in a forum does not help her, which is what I thought the intention of this site was.

Angela Chintis, MSW

hi, my real name is Rebecca, welcome to minti.

first of all, i am truly sorry for any offence. offending people is pointless and i am not one to do it on a regular basis. you seem very intelegent though perhaps conditioned by society to simply believe what you are told. i will explain but please know that i dont look down on anyone for their parenting style. mine is just quite different from most.

to quote you (i hope that is ok) "they are not cognitively advanced enough to reason" this is a matter of opinion, here is why.

eg: whilst we are on the topic, (and unknown to myself my daughter has no need to question the rule because she figured it out by herself.) i just asked my not yet three year old daughter why shouldn't you run away from mummy in the shops? and she said "i would get lost and i would be sad." we taught her the lost bit as well as the dangerous as mentioned eairler, but she added the sad indicating that in her mind this is an undesireable outcome from a situation and therefore she has reasoned ie; decifered which choice is more favourable based on the concequences. (that IS reasoning, is it not?)

teaching children to make good choices through both experience and education so they can avoid the concequences they dislike is just part of the job of teaching them reasoning and can be done much earlier than most parents will give them credit for, even as babies. having a brain like a sponge is an understatement for a toddler. they are capeable of so much and if directed by an adult that believes this and does not treat them as if they are not in control of their actions, they can grasp concepts that seem so complex at much eairler ages than statistics will dictate.

how advanced a child is cognitively is all a matter of opinion. parents see what they want to see. if they see a mind just itching to learn new challenging things every moment of the day even when it might seem too advanced for them and they act on their views then their child will advance quickly. if they see their little baby and rely on statistical averages based on age, then their child will progress at the average rate. having spent so much time with families i am sure that you would have been exposed to these averages on a daily basis in your work and most likely with your own children, refered to them frequently. this is not a bad thing, most parents do it. but being one who is quite regularly out of the norm with things, i did not. i formulated my own opinion of what my children are capeable of and have discovered that the averages are ones for the parent who leaves their child to their own devices developmentally rather than encourage them to challenge themselves mentally, physically and emotionally. i don't believe in pushing children to do something they don't want to do but i do believe that curiosity and constant explanation of their world even when they dont ask "why?" by an intelegent parent or group of caring adults is one of the best ways to instill the enjoyment of challenging the mind on a daily basis. the solutions i offered in my original comment were for the parent of the averages and going on the limited information provided and the anonimity of the author it was all i could offer.

also to correct you on your "one up" comment. i dont put myself above other parents with regards to this either. every parent know's what is best for their child after all. i do however encourage my friends who are parents, my children and any children in my care to think for themselves and challenge their minds and not rely on anything external but rather use it as a guide. this has ment that both my children are quite opinionated and difficult to direct at times but they will also be strong, intelegent and self sufficient adults.

an old saying but one that has never rung more true to my ideals with regards to parenting.

"parents work to raise not children, but future adults"

cheers and sorry again for any offence from Becca.

You've over reacted to someone elses comment. The idea is to present different ideas and for the asker to decide what is best for him or her. Ppl's style of writing is often based on the way they speak and as you get o know ppl you'll relise thats just the way they write.

I for instance write from heart as well as my medical knowledge. It's also important to be careful when attacking another person. You don't want to create ill will, so if you have problem with comment send thm a private minti mail and sort your differences out as an adult rather than publicly bring them down. This makes you look bad and devalues any advice you give to others who read your response.

Kathryn didn't attack you, she put her thoughts on the issue down. If you read her many other responses you'll will see this just her style and no offense should be taken.

Recently a member posted a brillant Q&A which sparked great debate amongst mintiers, the debate was mature all sides where well represented and everyone walked away with more knowledge and  confidence to share their point of view without personal critiscism  (all my friends are getting married, posted my Darkened Angel.)

There is a time and place and a way to correct ppl with out making it personal such as Your information is incorrect, or your arguement is flawed because and in the case of certain immature 15yr (yes, I'm gonna mention her again!) a huge reality check in a way that she can understand, (not a pleasant experiences from my point of view and hopefully hit home al though I doubtg it very much.)

Perhaps before responding in the way you have, may I suggest you read a persons blog and comments in order to get know them better before responding. Respect is given when you first give it.

Cheers Raven

Actually you can reason with a 3yr old, I had all this sorted with my son at 2 as I wouldn't tolerate running away, because of the dangers.  It takes persistence, consistent behaviour and a lot of hard work for an intensive period; however the rewards are well worth it.  Of course you need to be alert at all times and ready to respond if necessary, however practising daily in a safe environment, talking about your expectations prior to going out and sticking to your resolve to return home immediately should things go awry have worked out very well for me.  We also have a safe zone that we practice standing in immediately when getting out of the car or getting into the car... It is common sense, kids can understand and be capable of a lot more than we give them credit for; especially if we talk to them about it constantly and practice with them constantly. 

the nail now has a sore head.

i totally second the motion, i love that word.... RESOLVE!!! it's just pure awesomeness. everyone should have a healthy dose of it, especially parents. ::)'s

We have the two hands on the car rule, even my teen obey's it out of habit more than anything. As soon as the child gets out of the car, the put their hands on the car and the y are not allowed to take them off until there told. The one who does it without taking their hands off the car gets a kinder suprise. Sort like simon says only mummy or daddy say!!! It stops the child from running out into traffic in carparks or on the road. Becaust the arms are short they are forced to stand against the car. The thought of some yummy chocolate for playing "mummy's" game helps them to stick to it.

As for reasoning, really depends on your child, Nikki I could reason with as she was clingy child, but my teen was very much into her own independence and Lachie has behavioural issues and simple can't be reasoned with. It's beyond his ability to understand consequences. He ran away from home just after xmas last year and month later tried to run away from kindy. We have to watch him like hawke and scare tactics don't work either. Fortunately we are getting some help as slow as it is but he has learning delays and we are still trying to discover the extend of these delays.

Raven

It absolutely depends on the child and the child's ability, I agree with you on that for sure; I am lucky that my child has excellent cognitive skills and he is not only capable of being reasoned with, he approaches me with his own ideas and tries to reason with me if we don't see eye to eye.  Unfortunately for the person who was offended by any comments that disagree with hers, I am not in the habit of agreeing for the sake of it; if I have a differing opinion based on my own life experience, I will express it, just as I expect everyone else has done.  This is a public forum after all and by providing a variety of answers we help each other to learn new ways to do things.

Limiting the ability of a child merely due to their age is far too common in society nowdays, everyone reads about milestones and expectations, I prefer to teach my child at a rate that he can achieve and that suits our lifestyle.  We are out a lot and very active in sporting activities and for lack of babysitting he attends most social gatherings with us as well as shopping trips; he also rides his pushy all around town and stops at driveways, as well as roads; if he didn't, he wouldn't be allowed to ride it so much.

we will be so lucky with the next child, however we will adjust our strategy to meet the needs of that child when the time comes, just as you have had to do in your situation Raven.

Yeah, where trying to get help for him but it takes so much paper work to get it. It's ridiculous. I just about had a break down in my DR office over it. I have a pile of reports and no stragedies to deal with it. What gives??????

If I wasn't so desperate for the help, I'd have given up by now. It needs to to be made easier to get help, what good are all the reports when I can't control him or his behaviour?

Never mind I have some hope in CAMHS so we will see how it goes! Thanks for the encouragement!

The professional at CAMHS thinks that my stress levels during his pregnancy have caused a change in his brain function and that we should be able to mange it with out medication! Which makes me happy.

Cheers Raven

That's horrible - teaching kids lessons are a necessity but not when it puts them at serious risk!

in that case if you were trying to take her out of the store, i take it she broke away from holding her hand. I would explain to her that we can no longer go to the shops together, until she is able to listen to mummy . 

if you need to hop i would leave her at a creche for half a day once  a week so you could do all your shopping or if you cant afford a creche some coucils run a community centre usually on a friday so one can do there shopping. they usually have one lady there thats in charge and payed by council and mums take it in turns to help out . so really you only need to help out every 4 weeks or so. 

 if your area doesnt have one you should ask the council for help in trying to set up one in your area if they are iffy about it. try to get a petition going with mothers in the area that would be needing the service . we had one running and we just donated money to the tin for the coffee that we usually drank when we came by to pick up our children.

this was a lifesaver to me especially when the second one was born because i just couldnt push the pram and trlley and hold another tolddler by the hand. at first this is the way i shopped (hubby being at work) and in those days meats wernt sold in the supermarkets and the butchers would close at 5.30. also there wasnt late night trading !

hope all this helps 

annie 

Jaydee tried this on over a few weeks when he was 2yrs old... I just used to drop whatever I was doing and head straight home.  Once he finished his tantrum, we would practice walking together the way that I wanted him to do it when we were out...

Honestly it just takes patience and persistance, it can be a pain at the time, however it is worth the effort in the long run.  If you have ever trained a dog to heel, you will find that rewarding good behaviour works just as well with toddlers ; )  IF Jaydee is a super good boy on our trips out and about, he gets a treat, sometimes it's a sticker, sometimes it's playing at the park on the way home, a milkshake etc... It varies, we decide upon the treat before we go out and he only gets it if he has been really well behaved and stayed within arms reach of me in quiet areas and holds my hand in busy areas.  If my arms are full, he holds on to me or my clothes and sticks close.

P.S - You can use this tactic anywhere. If you go to Target again before you go, crouch down on your knees to her level and explain what you're about to be doing and what behaviour you expect from her. Tell her in the case of an emergency and it happens again, where she needs to go to get help or meet you. Make it a safe place where work employees are present.

that's an old scouting tactic. getting down to their level i mean. we used to do it with the cub scouts. there are so many adults who don't do it. not sure why cause i sure wouldn't want to be told off by someone double my size. good idea for mentioning that here. ::)'s