This sounds very familiar to me - with an almost five year old boy - and some of these tips are great!  I just wanted to add that one thing I have worked out is the way being outdoors calms my son.  If he mucks up like this I can generally pick it is when we have been busy and inside all day.  I let him outside to run and jump and things improve - and I feel better too!

Try the super nanny way. Tell them you dont like what they are doing and put them in separate areas for 5 minutes. Each time they are naughty increase the time out by a couple of minutes. You have to do this every time they mis- behave, if you don't do it every time then they learn that you will give in. Children need to have firm guide lines on what they can and cannot do. Smacking rarely works (I tried with mine), time out, removing favourite toys, not allowing TV etc sometimes works. Or you could try a reward system. Put a paper on the fridge, tell them they get a star/ sticker when they stop when asked and that after X amount of stickers, they get to choose  a treat. The treat can be special time playing games with mum or dad, choosing what they eat for tea that night. Don't make the reward something you have to buy! Most importantly, be consistent!!! If the punishment / reward doesn't happen every time they are naughty, they will continue to push the boundries knowing that you do sometimes give in. Both you and your partner have to discuss and agree on the method you will use and both keep to it. Don't laugh when the boys are being crazy, or behaving in a manner that is not acceptable. Children do know how to push buttons and if they get away with it once, they will continue to push the boundries. Try to think what it is that sets the boys off in the afternoons and if possible, change thier routine. Take them out for a walk, play ball in the back yard.

You're right, all yelling does is stress yourself out and get you no where. Keep a calm but firm voice so that they realise you are serious. Yes its so easy to give advice, but not always easy to follow. I know!!! My sons were great as kids, my daughter was spawned by the devil!! Only consistency and remaining calm will get results and those are the hardest things to manage.

Maybe even ask the teachers at the day care for help. Ask what they did if your sons started to play up. Try looking up the super nanny on the net. And most of all, when you find something that works, stick to it and treat yourself when they do as you want. Good luck!!!!

we have the same and from what i have discovered it is what Arna said. they just need to burn off that energy. we usually let logan go nuts outside after school for an hour or so and he burns it off. then he comes in for a snack and drink (great bribery to get him in and behaving again LOL!) with his little sister who is usually fully awake by then. then we have an afternoon routine that has some rough play with daddy then a movie whilst dinner is being prepered to calm them down, they eat and then story and bed. let them burn it off but out of your hair outside/playroom and then stick to a routine again. hope this helps, from becca!

This is not a problem just with boys.  Our oldest is 5 and at school and our 2nd is 4.  I can tell you now, once the oldest is home from school, it is feral time here too!  And nothing we do stops it.

I have a theory that it is because of the time of day.  the day is ending, and they need to get rid of the extra energy before going to sleep at night.  But, ours do sleep through the night (mostly).

Our reactions to the behaviours our children exhibit can spur them on more, so try and keep calm (says she who has packed her bags ready to walk out! lol) and not let it get to you.  Seperate them if you can, one in a bedroom and one in another room, with quiet activities.  Might help, it does sometimes with ours.

I can only tell you how I coped. My daughter was 'off the wall' a lot as a young child. There was only one of her but she was a Gemini ( ! ). It was making me crazy & then I would react in ways I didn't like (smacking &/or screeching like a harpy). So I decided to isolate her in a safe space @ those times. I made her room injury-proof & wedged/shut/locked her door (depending where we were living at the time) so she couldn't get out.. Then went & had a cup of tea or cried on the phone to a friend or went out into the garden for some deep breathing, to calm down. I also told her clearly that when she stopped the behaviour, she could come out. That strategy did at least reduce the crazy reactions from me (& I was amused, years later, to see articles reccommending 'time out' for out-of-control kids). Since you have 2, you may find that you need 2 'time out' spaces to get them calmer quicker. But I'd try it out with them together first if I were you.

As to why; I got talking to other mums. At that time 'hyperactivity' was the term being used & many people theorised that chemicals in food could be the cause. I discovered that foods/drinks that were bright (bulldozer-) yellow & red (scarlet rather than crimson) definitely made things worse. Then "Smurf" blue came out; that was bad too. Nowadays, young mums find that certain preservatives & 'flavour enhancers' can be bad news as well.

But I do believe that is only part of the picture b/c I found, like you, my daughter could & would behave a lot better when she was someplace else.  Tho she seemed to muck up a whole lot worse when she got home after.  Milly really loved red cordial & yellow cheese (did you know they put artificial colouring in cheese to make it look aged?). So when she was 9yo she negotiated with me to be allowed to have those things sometimes as long as she was prepared to take full responsibility for what it did to her & not take it out on me. If she failed to keep her commitment she was less likely to be granted a dispensation again so in the end I was able to back off from all 'policing' of her food... She knew what it did to her & how hard it was to control her own behaviour so she made the judgement call & was prepared to wear the consequences. I was/am very proud of her for that.

Years later, when my new step-kids were being ghastly, I went to a 'better parenting' group where I learned that kids behave worst with the people they trust the best. It seems that humans tend to take for granted the people they know will go on loving them no matter what. I don't know why that had never occured to me... So I saw for the first time that my daughter's (& my step-kids) atrocious behaviour really was "a back-handed compliment". If I had only known that when I was younger, it would have saved me so much self-recrimination (about being a bad parent). So now you know too... It may help you keep your temper & sleep better . Your kids know your love is unshakeable.. Its good to know isn't it.

Lots of people just accept the diagnosis 'ADD' or 'ADHD', get the prescription filled & keep their kids on the drugs (Rittilin, I think; its a pharmeceutical amphetimine). But your twins aren't doing it in school or day-care. You can use a softer approach if you want.

So really my message is to experiment a bit; think laterally. And always take the time out you need to ensure that you are happy about how you're relating to your kids. Because even when they're little monsters that need taming, they are still your precious & beloved babies... (& don't they know it  )

 Rosalinda

My the EXACT same behavior in my 3 year old. It frustrates me to no end. But thankfully, with my son we know the cause. It's when he doesn't get enough sleep. He sleeps from 8 to 6am and naps idealy for 2 hours. But sometimes he either sleeps later, or wakes up several times a night or wakes up early. And on those days, he is highly difficult to deal with. And lately, he's been refusing to nap and by 5pm on those days, it's pretty much hell in my house. He gets whiny, more hyper and doesn't listen. Actually, it's not that he chooses not to listen, but it's obvious that nothing registers! And if he doesn't get his way, he cries immediately.   This is totally opposite when he gets his normal amount of sleep - we can disagree to no end and there's no whining/crying going on and he ways his option if I tell him consequences.

So that said, maybe find that moment before they get a "second wind" and do quiet play at that point (reading, painting, etc).

As far as day care goes - most kids are angels at school. Mine is the same way.

I assume that being in full time day care, you are talking about evenings when you get home. This could be an overtired time, or just a pressure release. I found with my youngest when he was at day care for the full day, he would be so controlled etc that when he came home he wanted to get rid of the excess.

You might want to try a change in the routine at night time. If you notice they are getting a little on the excited side, maybe it is time for a nice warm bath to calm down, and then a little quiet time, either read a book or whatever. Might help.

Sounds to me as though they are over tired.  Children will often go hyper in a second wind type senario when they have gone past their "Sleep/Rest"window.  Notice roughly the time this behaviour occurs and if it is possible to instigate a rest time 30-45 minutes prior to melt down this would be my advice.  They may only require a 30 minute power nap to see them through to regular bed time.  failing this, what time is their regular bedtime?  You may want to bring it forward a bit so that they might get the extra sleep at night.  Even just resting might help.  Even if you have to bribe them I think the end will justify the means.  Get a kitchen timer and set it for 30 minutes and set it outside their bedroom door and explain that if they go to bed and have a "Rest"until the timer goes off they can have a treat as soon as they are up.  This could be a muffin, 15 minutes of TV, a play with you doing something they like, what ever they will deem as a treat that you can deliver.  I would avoid swets as that could start up hyperness all over again, but I'm sure if you asked them for some suggestion s you wont be short of any to chose from LOL.

Good Luck.  I'm sure this is the problem, I nannyed for years and saw this a lot.  Stick with it and 4 is a good age to negociate with them as long as you remain in control.

I have found my kids will get this second wind too, they seem to be over-tired or over-stimulated and especially if they have something to eat they can get wound up.  For me it normally happens after dinner and bathtime.....they can go a bit feral and want to wrestle. 

What i do is reign them in and make them sit down and draw, colour or read stories with them.  Some sort of activity so they are sitting and quiet, i usually separate them from each other.  But i have that age gap and my eldest loves to draw so it is easy to get him to do that quietly.  I think your right, smacks do nothing but distraction really works.

One question I have is when do they do this?  Do they do it more often in the evening or really at anytime of the day?  I ask because my girl gets this so called second wind when she becomes really tired.  And since there are two of them, they are feeding off each other and thus making it worse.  So it seems.  Have you tried to seperate them? Maybe taking them on one at a time instead of together, this way they don't have each other to give support in the bad behavor?  If this seems to happen in the evenings, or after noons, try to have them seperate for some quiet time.  Often kids need naps or quiet time until up to 3 grade, so I've seen.  Alot of times this hyperness is mistaken as a sugar rush or second wind or the such when in fact it's the bodys response to being overly tired.  I hope this helps.